Which tartan to ware?

[macwilkin]

Somebody please correct me if I'm wrong, but Black Stewart is the same sett as Royal Stewart but with a color change - both considered open or general use tartans... At least that's what I was advised when I asked quite some time ago.

Are they also claimed as Clan Stuart tartans??


blu

Do you want the long or the short of it, Blu? ;)

Here's what the STA has to say about the Royal Stewart:

Tradition has it that those who have no tartan of their own can wear the Black Watch (The Universal or Government Tartan) or the Hunting Stewart, but not the Royal Stewart without the express authority of the Queen. However, commercialisation in recent times has rather blurred this.

-- http://www.tartansauthority.com/Web/...yalTartans.asp

So, for instance, since the Black Watch is a "Royal" regiment, bearing the title "Royal" in their full name, the Royal Highland Regiment, the pipers of the band of the BW wear the Royal Stuart. Besides the Black Watch, a number of regiments in the British Army and Commonwealth forces have been given permission for their pipers to wear the tartan:

http://www.regiments.org/tradition/tartans/stuartro.htm

Another quote, this time from article about the sovereign's piper:

During The Queen's stay on her private estate in Scotland, the Balmoral Tartan is worn. The Royal Stewart and Balmoral Tartans are recognised as 'royal' tartans, The Royal Stewart is considered the tartan of the Royal House of Stewart (or Stuart).

So, I think the STA sums it up quite nicely -- commercialisation has blurred the fact that is a "Royal" tartan, just as the Governmet Sett, once known as "Universal", and now "Black Watch", has also become a "universal" tartan.

I hope no one thinks I'm saying they can't wear Royal Stewart -- just following Jimmy's mantra of "Know your tartan".

Cheers,

Todd

[Blu (Ontario)]

Thanx for the clarification Tod. I was beginning to imagine that perhaps Heisenbergs uncertainty principal somehow applied to kilts and tartans in some cosmic way??


blu

[Kilted Stuart]

The house of Stuart is fairly large if history is written right. I only know what tartans my family is suppost to wear (black Stuart, Hunting and Royal) with the ever present question mark of the Royal. I was told from a very young age what to wear and to be proud of it. They are called The Black, Royal and Hunting Stuart for a reason. They are Stuart clan tartans hence the Stuart name. I know a lot of people wear the Black Watch and many of the vast amount of Stuart and Stewart tartans. Alot of tartans are based off the Royal Stuart and Black Watch tartans.

There is always debate about the Royal and who can wear it. Some wear it because it looks good. I'm not sure that the Queen is going to be too upset if I here in Fergus wear it. If I have to wait like some people and wait for a king or a phone call to give me permission, well it seems a little funny. I've only ever had negative comments from older Scots. I bet it's one of the biggest rental kilts out there for people of non Scotish heritage going to weddings etc.

I don't wear the Royal often and never the hunting. I prefer the Black Stuart and I wear the Black Watch often too because I like it and for my great grandfather David Stuart
( we could have been identical twins) for whom I was named.
A lot of people wear anything they like. That seems fine to me.

Kilted Stuart

[macwilkin]

The house of Stuart is fairly large if history is written right. I only know what tartans my family is suppost to wear (black Stuart, Hunting and Royal) with the ever present question mark of the Royal. I was told from a very young age what to wear and to be proud of it. They are called The Black, Royal and Hunting Stuart for a reason. They are Stuart clan tartans hence the Stuart name. I know a lot of people wear the Black Watch and many of the vast amount of Stuart and Stewart tartans. Alot of tartans are based off the Royal Stuart and Black Watch tartans.

There is always debate about the Royal and who can wear it. Some wear it because it looks good. I'm not sure that the Queen is going to be too upset if I here in Fergus wear it. If I have to wait like some people and wait for a king or a phone call to give me permission, well it seems a little funny. I've only ever had negative comments from older Scots. I bet it's one of the biggest rental kilts out there for people of non Scotish heritage going to weddings etc.

I don't wear the Royal often and never the hunting. I prefer the Black Stuart and I wear the Black Watch often too because I like it and for my great grandfather David Stuart
( we could have been identical twins) for whom I was named.
A lot of people wear anything they like. That seems fine to me.

Kilted Stuart

No worries, mate -- no one, not especially I, is telling you you can't wear the Royal Stuart -- but, Blu did ask about the history and custom behind it. As a librarian and a historian, I would be violating my principals if I didn't tell the whole story. As I said earlier, the issue of the Royal Stuart tartan being a "Royal" tartan is pretty much a moot subject now, because as you said, of all the people wearing it, renting kilts in it, etc.

I personally prefer "Stuart Old Sett" or the "Stuart Hunting" myself -- the latter for its association with the oldest regiment of the British line, the 1st of Foot/Royal Scots, raised in 1633. But, I'm not a Stuart/Stewart! ;)

Again, as I stated earlier, my intention was not to offend or pontificate, but to educate. I'm sorry I offended you.

Cheers,

Todd

[Kilted Stuart]

No Cajunscot, you didn't offend me in the least,
as a matter of fact you quite gracefully answered Blu's question.

There so much to the Stuart/Stewart clans history you can easily be misled to which tartans are for Stuart but not for Stewart and vice- versa.
I'm thrilled that many people feel comfortable to wear any clans tartan but it's nice to see anyone in one of the Stuarts. I agree with the posts that say you should know some history behind what you wear. I think it's only fitting and shows respect to know a little about the clan. There are so many wonderful tartans out there. I only posted to let AppStateScot know there are a few that are seen as standard or open use tartans like the Black Watch. It just happens to have a little more meaning for me.

I hope everyone feels free to wear whatever they choose. We all wear the kilt for the same reason, for the love of the kilt.

Kilted Stuart

[Blu (Ontario)]

... Blu did ask about the history and custom behind it.

I certainly did and greatly appreciate the definitive response. I have to admit... Since signing onto this forum two (whew!) years ago, I've become much more appreciative of the sensitivities and emotions this issue can educe.

Thanx again!

blu

[GlassMan]

I thought I read somewhere that the Queen had given permission to wear the Royal Stewart to those wishing to show their loyalty to the crown, but reserved the Balmoral for the royal family.

Ham, can you clarify for us?

[macwilkin]

I thought I read somewhere that the Queen had given permission to wear the Royal Stewart to those wishing to show their loyalty to the crown, but reserved the Balmoral for the royal family.

In 1936 King Edward VIII authorised the registration of the sett [Balmoral] to prevent further commercial manufacture for the public.

-- http://www.royal.gov.uk/output/page3370.asp

As for your question, Zaczek and Phillip's "Complete Book of Tartan" does confirm your statement about HM subjects wearing the Royal Stuart tartan as a way to display their loyalty, but it doesn't mention which monarch gave permission to do so.

Matt, anything else to add to this?

Cheers,

Todd

[starbkjrus]

I"m not going to get into English vs. Scotish politics BUT in the opinion of this fairly militant Stewart it is rather offensive to assume the current Royal Family has any legitimate claim to say who can wear Royal Stewart. I find it even more offensive that that a recent monarch has the gall to assert that the Royal Stewart may be worn to show allegiance to the English Crown.

I am predisposed to honor and respect the Crown of the United Kingdom but the Windsors make my teeth hurt. (The Hanovers weren't any better either.)

[macwilkin]

I"m not going to get into English vs. Scotish politics BUT in the opinion of this fairly militant Stewart it is rather offensive to assume the current Royal Family has any legitimate claim to say who can wear Royal Stewart. I find it even more offensive that that a recent monarch has the gall to assert that the Royal Stewart may be worn to show allegiance to the English Crown.

I am predisposed to honor and respect the Crown of the United Kingdom but the Windsors make my teeth hurt. (The Hanovers weren't any better either.)

Once again, you're missing my point. The crown has not started a crackdown on Royal Stewart wearers, but at one time, it was a royal tartan. Please don't read more into it.

Think of it this way: the Royal Stuart is a military tartan in a sense, since the pipers of the Black Watch and other regiments with the designation of "Royal" wear it. Since the Queen and members of the Royal family are "Colonels-in-Chief" of the Scottish regiments, then they do have some say in who wears a military tartan. But again, this is all a non-issue, since the tartans are readily available.

Also, I should point out that we are not taking about a purely "English" crown per se - if you remember your history, King James VI of Scotland assumed the thrown of England as James I after the death of Elizabeth I. Yes, I know all about the Union of 1707 and all that, but I don't buy that it's a purely English crown, because there is a lot of Stuart blood in there.

Todd