History vs Hollywood

**mrpharr** · 9th May 06, 06:53 PM

Im looking to see if anyone more knowledgeable than i in Scottish history can give any information if the Craig clan leader, in Braveheart, really was such a sell out and despicable clan leader... thanks.

p.s.
i sure hope that was all hollywood. how acurate was the movie? is it just a general representation of the times (i would think kilt wearing was not around until many years after).

**Woodsheal** · 9th May 06, 07:08 PM

Well, they got the location correct: Scotland. William Wallace was one of the rebel leaders' names. Edward I was king of England at the time. Pretty much everything else in that movie is nonhistoric. "Craig" and the other earls or whatever they are are fictional, and the odd belted plaids are bogus. Wallace would have worn mail, surcoat, and helm like any other knight of the period, for he came from a "knightly" family - both his father and older brother were knights. They wouldn't have lived in a Flintstone house, either...!

**mrpharr** · 9th May 06, 07:15 PM

Yabba Dabba Do! Too Funny. That's good to know. I'll have to sue the screen writer Randall Wallice (just kidding) on behalf of all Craigs that lived and died for their homeland. They should have made him Barney Rubble instead.

**An t-Ileach** · 9th May 06, 07:17 PM

And he wouldn't have spoken English with a mock Glaswegian accent, but Norman French. And he'd have defeated Edward at a battle at Stirling Bridge. And he wouldn't have had an affaire with Sophie Marceau - that was Roger de Mortimer. And the Burning of the Barns of Ayr would have happened differently, as would the sack of Dunbarton. So it's basically hogwash: but good fun, and it did wonders for Scots morale when it was released.

**mrpharr** · 9th May 06, 07:22 PM

Sounds right. I will have to crack open my history of the english language books again. they had some interesting facts post Norman invasion.

**Woodsheal** · 9th May 06, 07:25 PM

True, true! Too bad they left out the bridge. And the marriage between the future Edward II and the French princess did not take place until after Wallace's death.
Would not Wallace also have been a Gaelic speaker, or at least the Welsh version of the language. After all, the name "Wallace" meant Welshman, and indicated the family's Welsh (or Strathclyde) origins, no?

**An t-Ileach** · 9th May 06, 07:51 PM

I'm a bit vague on the status of "Welsh" (and Scots, for that matter) in the Strathclyde area in the 13th Century. I suspect it might well have died out, except for dialect words in the Gaelic that was spoken in Galloway and Strathclyde until the 16th Century.

There seems to have been quite a bit of linguistic flux going on for some time: Kentigern (the Glaswegian saint also known as Mungo) is clearly a Gaelic description consisting of the two elements ceann and tighearna in Modern Gaelic (I wouldn't like to hazard a guess at what it would be in Old Irish); and in old documents the Kintyre peninsula is often written Pentir, which is the Welsh for Ceann Tir - which is the translation and which the original? So it's quite possible that WW spoke a form of Gaelic. Though in common with all the knightly class, even at the end of the 1200s when they were using the vernacular languages more and more, he probably also (or mostly?) had Norman French.

**Valencian Kilted** · 10th May 06, 02:24 AM

The film was not accurate with history, it's full of mistakes and even was the cause of making such a horrible statue in Stirling, ....BUT,....damn... it was a great movie, the soundtrack was amazing and pushed up the hearts of the world towards Alba. In my opinion you can disagree Mr. Gibson as much as he's such a particular man, but he did a great job for Scotland's self-stimation... Even with all those mistakes I could imagine the people cheering on the movie seats as they were feeling the fight noises with all that head crushing, leg cutting, etc.... over all when the heads, legs, etc,... were from the english side!

I'll always put it on my list of favourites, as you can see!

¡Salud!

T O N O

**Pour1Malt** · 10th May 06, 02:30 AM

Originally Posted by Woodsheal

Well, they got the location correct: Scotland....

weel... no really... it was filmed in Ireland....

**highlander_Daz** · 10th May 06, 02:49 AM

much of the beginning was filmed at Fort William, on the commentry mel says it rained all the time-didnt do your home work Mel it always rains there!!

Wallace most likely spoke Frence as well as English (he wrote letters in English) and Latin he was an educated man, Gaelic -who knows? he was a lowlander. so little is know about Wallace, most of what we know was written years after he died, he was considered enough of a threat to be tried for treason in London and his body scattered, it would have been just as easy to hang him in Glasgow but they decided that he should be made an example of -even 7 years after the battle of Stirling -there is a story that Wallaces arm is entombed in some abbey, no one knows for sure. I love the film and Gibson does give a powerful performance and his Accent isnt as bad as people make out, Ive heard much worse. I like the soundtrack but I would have like to hear some GHB music -just a tiny bit?