History vs Hollywood

[KiltedCodeWarrior]

This is a good thread. I know this has been asked before, but I can not find the thread, so I will ask it again here. What would be a good book to read for some broad Scottish history? And I am looking for something that will hold my attention, when I had history courses in college, it was all I could do to stay awake! Maybe something accurate but written to narrate the history not recite facts. If anyone has read Sea Hunters, by Clive Cussler, you might understand what I mean. For reference, I mainly read SF/F (Heinlein, Asimov, Brooks, Anthony) and anything by Stephen King.

I do remember somebody mentioning one book, How the Scots created the modern world, or a similar title, is that a good one?

[Sylvain]

Besides, real life is always more exciting, more dramatic than fiction -- to know that someone actually went through an event is much more effective!

Life is certainly more exciting to be lived, but not to be seen.
I read that a few decades ago, something rented a cable TV channel and, 23 hours a day, broadcast waves on the shore, the remaining hour being amateurs doing anything in front of a camera. Sitting on the shore watching at the see can be a very fulfilling experience, and a party where friends do amateur sketches can be very funny. On the TV, it was most boring, as you can imagine.

In any battle, there are hours or days waiting for things to happen: this will never be part of a film...

[macwilkin]

Life is certainly more exciting to be lived, but not to be seen.

I read that a few decades ago, something rented a cable TV channel and, 23 hours a day, broadcast waves on the shore, the remaining hour being amateurs doing anything in front of a camera. Sitting on the shore watching at the see can be a very fulfilling experience, and a party where friends do amateur sketches can be very funny. On the TV, it was most boring, as you can imagine.

In any battle, there are hours or days waiting for things to happen: this will never be part of a film...

Not sure I agree with you here as well. The aforementioned Alamo movie did an excellent job showing the 13-day siege, and the fact that the majority of the time the defenders were not engaged in combat.

Again, I believe you can achieve a balance between reality and entertainment. As I said earlier, no movie will be 100% accurate -- but at least take the time to study the period and events being presented, and try to be as true to the real story as much possible. I am much more forgiving with a movie director if they at least do this, and not chuck history out the window just for entertainment's sake!

T.

[macwilkin]

This is a good thread. I know this has been asked before, but I can not find the thread, so I will ask it again here. What would be a good book to read for some broad Scottish history? And I am looking for something that will hold my attention, when I had history courses in college, it was all I could do to stay awake! Maybe something accurate but written to narrate the history not recite facts. If anyone has read Sea Hunters, by Clive Cussler, you might understand what I mean. For reference, I mainly read SF/F (Heinlein, Asimov, Brooks, Anthony) and anything by Stephen King.

I do remember somebody mentioning one book, How the Scots created the modern world, or a similar title, is that a good one?

It wasn't the history per se, it was probably your teacher. Good history is a well-told story. And you really can't have history without facts! But I know what you mean. :mrgreen:


"How the Scots..." is a good book, but a bit esoteric in parts.

One book I recommend to folks starting out is "The Scottish Highlanders: a personal view" by Charles MacKinnon. It gives a nice overview of Scottish history, focusing on the Highlands, and is a good read.

Cheers,

Todd

[An t-Ileach]

I've got seven here to hand on my working shelf, all of which I've enjoyed reading and found quite informative (and, as far as I can tell, accurate):

1. Marjory Harper, Adventurers and Exiles: The Great Scottish Exodus;
2. Stewart Lamont, When Scotland Ruled the World: The Story of the Golden Age of Genius, Creativity and Exploration;
3. Eric Richards, The Highland Clearances;
4. John MacLeod, Highlanders: A History of the Gaels;
5. Alistair Moffat, The Sea Kingdoms: The History of Celtic Britain and Ireland;
6. Ronald Williams, The Lords of the Isles: The Clan Donald and the early Kingdom of the Scots;
7. Ian Grimble, Clans and Chiefs.

And, if you're into philosophy, there's Arthur Herman's The Scottish Enlightenment.

[macwilkin]

One of my favourite Scottish history books is Scots in the North American West, 1790-1917 by Fernec Morton Szasz (University of Oklahoma Press, 2000). Well written, well documented, and in general, a good read. In a similar vein, Matthew Shaw's Great Scots! How the Scots created Canada is also highly recommended.

Another recommended book is The Scotch-Irish: a Social History by James Leyburn -- over 40 years old, and it still holds its own as a good one-volume history of the Ulster-Scots.

I'll have to browse the library this evening at home and see what else I can find.

Cheers,

Todd

[longshadows]

I disagree with your last statment. No film is 100% historically accurate, but those who at least make the effort can achieve a balance between authenticity and accuracy.

Todd is correct, as long as the producers of historical films and books have some integirty. It would be nice if historical motion pictures could get some sort of "Historians Seal of Approval" if their production is authentic and has made an effort of portray a reasonable version of the actual events, characters and ways of life.

The problem is, like Todd also said, when this is not done, the public comes away with some skewed understanding of historical events and "professionals," like historians, librarians, social scientists, etc. then try to correct.

Unfortunately, as in the case of the movie, "that dare not speak its name," they are having one heck of a time doing so. Readers of the book and those foaming at the mouth to see the upcoming movie are flooding places like Rosslyn Chapel in Scotland because it's been implicated in the plot, even thought scholars and historians all disagree on this. But don't confuse the public with the facts!

I guess "honesty (historical and otherwise) is the best policy," but it may not sell as well.

mp

[macwilkin]

Todd is correct, as long as the producers of historical films and books have some integirty. It would be nice if historical motion pictures could get some sort of "Historians Seal of Approval" if their production is authentic and has made an effort of portray a reasonable version of the actual events, characters and ways of life.

The problem is, like Todd also said, when this is not done, the public comes away with some skewed understanding of historical events and "professionals," like historians, librarians, social scientists, etc. then try to correct.

Unfortunately, as in the case of the movie, "that dare not speak its name," they are having one heck of a time doing so. Readers of the book and those foaming at the mouth to see the upcoming movie are flooding places like Rosslyn Chapel in Scotland because it's been implicated in the plot, even thought scholars and historians all disagree on this. But don't confuse the public with the facts!

I guess "honesty (historical and otherwise) is the best policy," but it may not sell as well.

mp

One good thing about the DVD medium is that if a movie does well enough at the box office, you will find a number of "extras", along with the feature film. I know that both versions of "The Great Raid", standard and deluxe, have documentaries about the Great Raid of Cabantuan (not Los Banos, as I mistakenly typed earlier) along with the movie so views may compare and contrast. So, that does help.

Cheers,

Todd

[longshadows]

In reading this thread and the comments about how much the members are enjoying it, I was struck by the possibility of a sort of "X Marks Book Club," where some of us take on the same book every month or so and share our impressions on line.

You know, as much as the moderators want to keep this forum to kilt-related stuff only, there's no arguing that the membership enjoys other Scots-related discussions--especially the history of Scotland and her people (wherever they may now live). It would, of course, be "off topic," and maybe if popular enough, they might give us our own "reading room" or "library" in the XMarks mansion.

For those who prefer cinema, a movie group, as well?

Would this be something we could pursue here?

mp

[Colin]

Todd's in his element here, me thinks

Personally I don't think Hollyweird and History should ever be used in the same sentence. As much as Hollyweird gets right in a historical drama, they get twice as much wrong. After all it all needs to be spiced up to keep the audience interested for 2+ hours. I could go on and on about the historical inaccuracies in film, but I think we all agree here.

And he wouldn't have had an affaire with Sophie Marceau -

For the record, Wallace may not have had an affair with Sophie Marceau, but I sure would have