Fellow Xmarks tartan owners....

[Blu (Ontario)]

I'm not sure if you noticed or not but in a recent thread posted under the Kiltmakers section...

http://www.xmarksthescot.com/forum/s...ad.php?t=18468

it was revealed that there are significant issues with the current run of Xmarks tartan fabric. These issues have absolutely nothing to do with Steve at Freedom Kilts and everything to do with the manufacturer. Since there are quite a few people that have kilts under construction and others that are making their own, I'd like to know how you are working around the problems. I'd also like to know if the first run also had the same problems. I also post this as a heads-up to those contemplating getting involved in future fabric runs.

Aside, I recently purchased a remnant from the the same mill and it was fine, thankfully.

Thoughts?

[Riverkilt]

Read the posts. Went and measured my sett. One was 1/8" smaller than the other two.

Have no clue on what to look for in a selvedge.

Whatever difficulties sewing up the kilt may have been for Kathy Lare, she never mentioned any problems, only what a beautiful tartan it was. So, if she did have any difficulties guessing she adjusted for them.

You can see from the pics in my gallery that her pleatwork is perfect.

I would guess, as experienced as she is for so many years, if there was a difficulty of any kind it was one she is well trained to cope with and adjust for.

Just dealing successfully with my corpulance was a wonderful treat for me.

The only way I was able to determine that one sett was 1/8" less than the other two was with a ruler. No way its noticeable, even at close range, without a ruler.

My X Marks cloth was from the first run.

Check the pics in my gallery, see what you think for yourself.

Having grown up in the cut and sew industry and laid out many thousands of layers of cloth for cutters, I know that any cloth from any mill, is liable to have an imperfection or two. Just consider the process involved and you'll understand why.

I didn't comment on the other thread because I'm not a kiltmaker and don't have the knowledge they do.

With all due respect to Barb, Rocky, and others I'm wondering if its really "that bad."

And, feeling some sadness that the mill who seemed to me to go the extra mile for us may be taking a hit they don't deserve.

But, not being an expert on tartan weaving gonna just back out and let the experts make the decision.

To be clear. Whatever Kathy Lare received from the mill to work with I'm extremely happy with the results of her craftsmanship.

See for yourself in my gallery if you haven't already.

Ron

[Riverkilt]

Here's a pic of a remanent of the first run of the X Marks the Scot tartan, now owned by Possingk, and hopefully soon a skirt for his wife without any problems.
The evaluation of the selvedge, sett size, and thread size aren't visible at this range. It does let you see a large chunk of the first run's tartan to see what it looks like at a short distance.

No intent of minimizing any kiltmaking problems. Only keeping things in perspective and avoiding any extreme problem solving.

If it doesn't show through your firewall try the gallery under "stuff."

Ron

[Gordon]

WOW! this is the first I am hearing of any problems with this tartan.(first or second run)

The xmarks tartan is 14 oz/yd and is not woven in an inferior way, furthermore we supply many organisations including pipe bands and do not encounter negative comments about the style of our selvedges.
Perhaps some of these kiltmakers quoted are 'married' to Scottish mills and are seeking to promote their own interests.

I take pride in our work, so if you have a specific complaint...contact me directly, rather than taking pot-shots from the weeds.

Gordon Kirkbright
Fraser & Kirkbright Weaving Co. Ltd.

[Blu (Ontario)]

Thanks for all the comments, Ron.

I know that my fabric is in good hands and that the finished "Tewksbury" kilt will be a thing of beauty and a joy to wear.

My initial post was certainly not intended as a rant, and I realize that things can happen in the manufacturing process, but I will have to trust the experience eyes of my kiltmaker on this one.

Run 2 of the Xmarks fabric is "water under the bridge". The issues are now out in the open. My hope is that once the problems are properly evaluated, that corrective action may be taken by the manufacturer to avoid a repeat.

blu

[Kiltman]

I made a kilt out of the first run. I think it was a good deal and have no complaints. It works a little differently than some others I've worked on, but that's not a problem. Thanks Gordon for a good product at a reasonable price. I'll buy more from you.

[Blu (Ontario)]

... Perhaps some of these kiltmakers quoted are 'married' to Scottish mills and are seeking to promote their own interests...

I'll leave that up to the various kiltmakers to answer.

I take pride in our work, so if you have a specific complaint...contact me directly, rather than taking pot-shots from the weeds.

I choose my words carefully. I do not doubt your craftsmanship or your pride in it. I do suggest, however, that a rational discussion to address these specific issues can lead to a positive result for all. I am not the only one affected by this. If in fact these issues are without merit, I shall ask that this thread be expunged from the forum forever.

[Wompet]

Regarding Blu's first post -
Matt Newsome did contact KCW, Dee, and me by e-mail about the bleed-through in the bleed-through at the selvedge, and he gave us the options of hemming the material or using it as is.

Now, when my yardage arrived, it was folded in such a way that the selvedge was not visible, so I based my decision on the picture Matt sent, along with the pictures in Ron's and Hamish's galleries. In the close-up, yes the bleed-through is apparent. In Hamish's photos it is noticeable, particularly if you know it's there. (Think about it - did anyone notice it before the second run?) With Ron's outdoor shots, the lighting is such that it was harder for me to distinguish it, even though I knew it was there.

So I decided: leave the selvedge as is, and if anyone notices I'll:

• congratulate them on their powers of observation,
• tell them that there is a special significance to that stripe being a different hue,
• or ask them why they've been staring at my kilt-line.:rolleyes:

As for the irregularity in the sett, I won't be affected by it. I ordered 4 meters of double-width material, of which Matt is only going to use 4 yards single-width for my kilt. My material is still going to be cut in half, but the halves aren't going to be sewn together, so the sett doesn't have to match. One half will be made into a kilt now, and the other will wait for now.



Gordon -
Matt and Barb initially contacted those members whose kilts they were making (they might have contacted Rocky too, since he's also making some kilts this run). They did not post any sort of criticism on the forum at that time, but told us, their customers, that there a couple of things about the fabric that would impact the making of our kilts. If was only two days ago that it was posted on the forum.

And those posts were in response to MacWage's request for sources of tartan fabric. And rather than simply saying "Don't order from Fraser & Kirkbright PERIOD", and leave everyone wondering "why?", the two kiltmakers who posted cited specific concerns with the material they had used. They did not generalize this criticism to all of your products; they stated that with this run of this tartan, they had encountered a, b, and c. If we buy yardage from you, will we also encounter a, b, and c? Maybe. Maybe not. But we will aware of the possibility, and be able to factor that into our decision-making processes.
There have been other threads where both the professional and amatuer kiltmakers have advised for and against various fabric sources, depending on the seeker's requirements. It's just that this is the first time (to my knowledge) that a specific tartan was mentioned, and that tartan was woven by one of our own.

Okay, I'm going to stop my growling and barking now, and go bark to my usual corner, turn around three times, and lay down.

[M. A. C. Newsome]

This is the first time I'm posting anything on this forum about this, but I felt the need to clarify a few points. I first learned of this issue when I got a phone call from Barb about it. She noticed a problem with the selvedge in the cloth she had and was wondering if I had the same problem. I checked the cloth I had recieved from those X Marks members I am making kilts for, and I saw just what she was talking about.

Here is the issue: F&K use a turn-under method in their selvedge, which a lot of mills use, including most major Scottish tartan mills. No problem with that. But in this particular instance, the broad white stripe of the tartan is close enough to the selvedge that the dark blue threads from the turn-under "bleed through" about half the width of the white stripe.

Neither Barb nor I made kilts from the first run of cloth, so we didn't notice it before. We were curious as to whether the first run looked the same, and we thought to look through Hamish's photo album, as he had a kilt made from the first run:
http://www.imff.net/php/useralbums/h...tHCUp_06_01_11

You can see from the bottom of his kilt that the first run also had this problem. The problem is not with the weave, but with the layout of the tartan. If the white stripe had not been located quite so near to the selvedge edge, this would not have been a problem.

Barb took an up-close photo of the selvedge that shows exactly what I'm talking about. She can post it here if she chooses.

All I did was to contact the three clients I'm making kilts for, explain the issue with the selvedge, and give them two options:
1) Leave it as it is and not worry about it.
2) Have me put a hem in the cloth to hide the selvedge.

I had people choose both options, and I'm happy to comply with their wishes.

For the record, I'm not "married" to any Scottish mill -- in fact, our museum gift shop orders quite a bit of product from Great Scot International, the US distributors for F&K. I can't speak for Barb, but I sincerely doubt she has any ties, formal or informal, to a particular mill. She's an individual kiltmaker and I know sources cloth from a variety of mills. Like myself, she just wants to make her clients aware of any problems *before* we start to cut & sew, rather than have them find out after the fact!

My only advice would be, in future runs of this tartan, to adjust the layout so that the white line doesn't fall so near the selvedge.

[bangkok kilt]

Informative as always Matt.