What's the difference?

[Mattg]

So the larger pleats, and probably more pleats, will take up that much fabric?

[Colin]

I am sure someone with more knowledge will jump in, but I am not sure a belted plaid is pleated as detailed as an 8 yard. Are belted plaids subject to the size of the sett? stripe or sett choices? or are they just based on size (ie 2 inch pleats regardless of sett or stripe)?

[cavscout]

the 4 - 5 yards in a great kilt is "double width" cloth. so you have a piece of cloth 12' long by 5' wide to make up a great kilt.

An 8 yard tailored kilt is single width so it is a piece 24' long by 2' wide.

Hope I didn't misunderstand the question .

[Colin]

Here's a good reference for putting on a belted plaid http://fullmoon.typepad.com/photos/kilt/index.html

where as with an 8 yard kilt the under apron wraps around the front and the apron goes over top of this (like the casuals today too.)

[cavscout]

Hre's another picture I think represents putting on the great kilt well.

[AllenJ]

the belted plaid is not usually pleated to the sett or the stripe as with tailored ones. It "could" be done but that dosent seem to be the case historically. So in essence, yes, with deeper, double width material, it's going to take more than a more relaxed, single width pleat on a belted plaid.

[Nick]

You can have an 8 yard GK and an 8 yard wee kilt, or you can have a 4 yard of either. But a greatkilt is double width, and that material up top is what goes over your shoulder. It also has nothing to do with the pleats. I'm very particular when I pleat mine, and have figured out just which lines to pleat to, and they're deep (my GK is a 6 yarder, so I have a bit more to play with).

Sliante,
Nick

[M. A. C. Newsome]

Colin,

That web site you referenced has a *9 yard* long belted plaid, which is easily twice as long as it needs to be. Other than that, though, the basic method it shows for putting it on is correct.

A great kilt (belted plaid or feilidh-mhor) is a different animal entirely than a modern tailored kilt. The belted plaid is an untailored length of cloth that it some 4 to 6 yards long (4 being closer to the average) and 50" to 60" wide (wide enough to reach from your knees to above your head).

Historically, this would have been made from two lengths of 25" to 30" wide material sewn together along one of the long ends to form the double-width peice you need. Today, though, most fabric is already available double-width and so you don't need to do this. (This is also why a lot of people -- like the guy in the web site -- think that the belted plaid was 9 yards long. Because often 9 yards of cloth were used, but 9 yards single width, meaning the finished plaid would be 4.5 yards long).

As you can see in the photos on the web site Colin linked to, the bottom of the plaid fell about the knee, and the upper portion was wrapped about the shoulders.

The feilidh-beag, which evolved from the feilidh-mhor (great kilt) was also about 4 yards long on average, but only the lower 25" to 30". Like the belted plaid, it was untailored. The cloth was simply gathered and belted about the waist.

The tailored kilt, that evolved from the feilidh-beag, originally also only was 4 yards long (and box pleated: see http://kilts.albanach.org/yardage.html). It was over the course of the nineteenth century that more cloth was added, until eventually by the late 1800s you have the 8 yard knife pleated kilt that is the standard today.

This kilt contains twice as much cloth as the original tailored kilt, with the excess cloth being utilized in the pleating in the rear of the kilt.

I hope this helps!
Matt

[Mattg]

Thanks guys! That does clear it up, especially the double width thing. And those liks are very informative! The more I see a great kilt the more I want one!

[cavscout]

The more I think about box pleats being the original method of pleating a kilt, it just makes sense.

In the military, we would pleat the back of our cammies in a very shallow box pleat. This was a very easy thing to do and you are able to place that pleat very accurately where ever you want it. And it's extremely easy if another person does it for you while you are wearing the cammies. You get a very crisp, tailored pleat that fits your body.

The times I've tried to knife pleat a long piece of cloth were a bit frustrating. I'm sure I'd get the hang of it if I did it daily but it's still a lot of effort to make one pleat by tucking it under, then grab the next fold of cloth and place it on top of the first without messing up the first. Do that 25 or more times and you have invested a lot of time to get dressed in the morning.

A box pleat on the other hand allows you to stabilize the first pleat with the knuckles of one hand and form the next pleat with the other hand and both thumbs. Then on to the next. This seems much easier to me.

Also, images of a highlander spreading out 12' x 5' piece of cloth, pleating it, then lying down on it, wrapping up in it, belting it, and then still having to adjust the pleats (if he's that concerned about appearance ) just don't seem logical. That's a lot of tedious work. Not that it doesn't work, it just doesn't seem the way a daily wearer would do it.

What makes more sense to me is, the highlander roughly wraps the cloth around himself over his belt and fastens the belt. At this point the aprons are roughly where they need to be. From there all he needs to do is reach behind himself or have a brother, sister, mother, room mate... quickly box pleat the excess. A few adjustments to the apron and he's good to go.

If you do this with a little kilt the effort is much less as well because you don't have the extra yardage.

I have nothing to base this on and I have not tried this method myself but I don't recall seeing any 17th century images of putting on a kilt by lying on the ground. The only (*old) image I'm aware of is the one I posted above and that highlander is standing up. *not saying that is from the 17th century

Educate me if I'm wrong on any of this but this is just a few quick thoughts.