Help me find my tartan(s).

[Tattoo Bradley]

All of the correspondence and materials I have received from the USAFR Band indicates the opposite, TB; the USAFR does, in some capacity, recognize the USAFR (Lady Jane) tartan as an "official" tartan. And the USAF (not the reserve band) Pipes and Drums wore the "Mitchell" tartan, not the Lady Jane, until their disbandment in the late 1960's. While the reserve band claims to trace their roots, some literature indicates they were actually two seperate bodies. I'm still gathering sources and I am still waiting for a USAFR band member to contact me regarding the history of the associated USAF tartans, but I would conclusively say that it is not recognized -- hopefully my research will clear this matter up.

Regards,

Todd

ps: I'll try to deal with the original question in this thread tomorrow!

I based my response simply on Matt's post in the other thread we've discussed this on. As far as the USAF Pipe band and the Mitchell tartan. Yes, but that was not discussed in this thread

#17 06-30-2006, 12:03 PM
M. A. C. Newsome
Curator - Scottish Tartans Museum USA
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: NC
Posts: 770

Ok, this post will either clarify things or make them more confusing (let's hope for the former!).

I'll use the ITI numbers for these tartans in order to be precise. You can look them all up at the Scottish Tartans Authority site:
http://www.tartansauthority.com

Tartan No. 2437 is the U.S. Air Force Reserve Pipe Band tartan. The STA notes say:

Quote:
One of a series of US Military tartans woven exclusively by the Strathmore Woollen Company and adopted by the Band of the Air Force Reserve, Georgia, USA in the early 1990s. Although this has no official US Military recognition, it has been widely accepted by US servicemen and their families with Air Force connections as a representative design.


There have been other attempts to creat unofficial tartans for the USAF, including Nos. 5080, 5075, and 4089.

The Mitchell tartan (No. 3178) was worn by the USAF Pipe Band (unsure if this was the reserve pipe band?) from about 1950, according to the STA notes. This is the same tartan that is worn by the Russells, Galbraiths, and Hunters, and, according to the STA, "acquired the name Mitchell when it was adopted by the U.S.Air Force Pipe Band and renamed in honour of General Billy Mitchell."

To answer another question, no, so far as I can tell the four families that share this tartan have no connection to one another, aside from the coincidence of sharing the same tartan!

Aye,
Matt
__________________
Matthew A. C. Newsome, FSA Scot
Member, Guild of Tartan Scholars
Curator, Scottish Tartans Museum
Maker of 4-yard box pleated kilts
Homepage: http://albanach.org

The red text summarizes with what I was attempting to convey. (From the STA notes... good enough for ME.)

[SSgt Baloo]

Let me see if I've got this straight.

1. As far as family/clan tartans go, I have a connection to Woods and Cooper.
   
2. I may have a connection to some Irish tartans, but I don't quite understand how those work. Is it by family or geography?
   
3. I may be eligible to wear some district tartans but how do I figure the connection to those?
   
4. I could wear the US tartan or the California tartan because I'm a citizen of both.
   
5. If I had lived in a state with an official tartan I could wear that tartan.
   
6. If I were a member of an organization with an official tartan I could wear that.
   
7. If I want to honor my branch of the service, I could wear the USAF/USAFR tartan or the "Mitchell" tartan.
   
8. If I wanted to honor my late father's service in WWII, I could wear the US Navy tartan.
   
9. If I wanted to honor my nephew's Army service (and the fact that the USAF started out as a branch of the army) I could wear the US Army tartan.
   
10. If I wanted to honor my sister's service in the Coast Guard (yeah, my sister was a coastie ) I could wear the Coast guard tartan.

So... Have I gotten it right thus far or do I need further instruction (apart from the questions posed above)?

--SSgt Baloo

[glengall1]

Let me see if I've got this straight.

1. As far as family/clan tartans go, I have a connection to Woods and Cooper.
   
2. I may have a connection to some Irish tartans, but I don't quite understand how those work. Is it by family or geography?
   
3. I may be eligible to wear some district tartans but how do I figure the connection to those?
   
4. I could wear the US tartan or the California tartan because I'm a citizen of both.
   
5. If I had lived in a state with an official tartan I could wear that tartan.
   
6. If I were a member of an organization with an official tartan I could wear that.
   
7. If I want to honor my branch of the service, I could wear the USAF/USAFR tartan or the "Mitchell" tartan.
   
8. If I wanted to honor my late father's service in WWII, I could wear the US Navy tartan.
   
9. If I wanted to honor my nephew's Army service (and the fact that the USAF started out as a branch of the army) I could wear the US Army tartan.
   
10. If I wanted to honor my sister's service in the Coast Guard (yeah, my sister was a coastie ) I could wear the Coast guard tartan.

So... Have I gotten it right thus far or do I need further instruction (apart from the questions posed above)?

--SSgt Baloo

I'll bet you're glad you asked now.

You could wear the Irish ones as the names that you suggested come originally from that part of Ireland (Irish County).

The Scottish District ones are the same, the district the name came from.

I will let the other posters answer in relation to theirs.

Tartan in my opinion about what you want to wear for whatever reason. We do supply Strathmore tartans.

Good luck.

[macwilkin]

Let me see if I've got this straight.

1. As far as family/clan tartans go, I have a connection to Woods and Cooper.
   
2. I may have a connection to some Irish tartans, but I don't quite understand how those work. Is it by family or geography?
   
3. I may be eligible to wear some district tartans but how do I figure the connection to those?
   
4. I could wear the US tartan or the California tartan because I'm a citizen of both.
   
5. If I had lived in a state with an official tartan I could wear that tartan.
   
6. If I were a member of an organization with an official tartan I could wear that.
   
7. If I want to honor my branch of the service, I could wear the USAF/USAFR tartan or the "Mitchell" tartan.
   
8. If I wanted to honor my late father's service in WWII, I could wear the US Navy tartan.
   
9. If I wanted to honor my nephew's Army service (and the fact that the USAF started out as a branch of the army) I could wear the US Army tartan.
   
10. If I wanted to honor my sister's service in the Coast Guard (yeah, my sister was a coastie ) I could wear the Coast guard tartan.

So... Have I gotten it right thus far or do I need further instruction (apart from the questions posed above)?

--SSgt Baloo

Genealogy is one way to determine which Scottish district tartans might be appropriate for you to wear; if you can trace your lineage to a particular town, district, etc. then you could wear that tartan. For example, if your great-great grandfather was from Fife, then the Fife District tartan would be in order. The same could be said for the Irish county tartans.

I personally like to see folks wearing district tartans.

Check out www.district-tartans.com

Cheers,

Todd

[Tattoo Bradley]

it has been widely accepted by US servicemen and their families with Air Force connections as a representative design.

The red text being the key to my identification with it. Everything I myself have seen says it is not official. Yes, they are wearing it in an "official" fashion. But, the USAF/R hasn't taken it as official. I have found the tartan on more than a few sites and many associate it with the USAF. This leads back to my initial point. There is no actual United States Air Force tartan. So, this is the closest and most indentifiable tartan.

[macwilkin]

The red text being the key to my identification with it. Everything I myself have seen says it is not official. Yes, they are wearing it in an "official" fashion. But, the USAF/R hasn't taken it as official. I have found the tartan on more than a few sites and many associate it with the USAF. This leads back to my initial point. There is no actual United States Air Force tartan. So, this is the closest and most indentifiable tartan.

Not to belabor the subject, but since they (the band) are wearing the tartan with official US Air Force uniforms, under USAF dress regulations, then there has to be some sort of approval somewhere up the chain-of-command, would there not? I can't imagine this not having some sort of approval.

But, hopefully the band member will reply to my query soon with some sort of definitive answer.

T.

[Tattoo Bradley]

Just because that's what they've decided to wear, doesn't mean the USAF or USAFR has officially adopted the tartan. I suppose they could turn around tomorrow and take a fancy to another unclaimed tartan and agree to dress the band in it with this line of thought. Whereas something fully official would be much more "concrete?" This is all speculation of course. I'm not claiming to have the definitive answer here. I'm just working with what I've seen, not trying to stretch it into something it's not. Who is this member you're waiting for a "definitive answer" from? Is this member in a position to give a definitive answer on behalf of the USAFR?

[macwilkin]

Just because that's what they've decided to wear, doesn't mean the USAF or USAFR has officially adopted the tartan. I suppose they could turn around tomorrow and take a fancy to another unclaimed tartan and agree to dress the band in it with this line of thought. Whereas something fully official would be much more "concrete?" This is all speculation of course. I'm not claiming to have the definitive answer here. I'm just working with what I've seen, not trying to stretch it into something it's not. Who is this member you're waiting for a "definitive answer" from? Is this member in a position to give a definitive answer on behalf of the USAFR?

The PAO I spoke to via e-mail said they were passing my query along to the "leader of the band". That's all I know, but I would imagine they would know the status of the tartan.

And btw, I'm not trying to "stretch it into something its not", Just asking questions -- that's what a good researcher does. It stands to reason that someone has given some sort of permission, but who knows? That's why I contacted the Band directly to find out. I have never said I have the "definitive answer". I've probably seen many of the same things you've seen in terms of sources, and to me, the facts don't add up -- hence why I am researching in attempt to get the most accurate story as possible.

T.

[macwilkin]

I based my response simply on Matt's post in the other thread we've discussed this on. As far as the USAF Pipe band and the Mitchell tartan. Yes, but that was not discussed in this thread

The red text summarizes with what I was attempting to convey. (From the STA notes... good enough for ME.)

Matt, Brian Wilton, the Director of the STA and myself have all been in communication in regards to the USAFR tartan. I have forwarded to Brian and Matt all e-mails and other information I have received from the Public Affairs Officer with the USAFR Band, and it appears that there are several versions of the story out there. This communication has taken place since the first thread.

But, I think one can make a very convincing arguement that since serving airmen and women of the USAFR are wearing the tartan as part of their official capacity as band personnel, then the tartan has, at least tacit recognition by the Air Force. It is not just a band of retired or former servicemen:

All members of the Air Force Reserve Pipe Band are professional Air Force musicians working in support of Air Force and Air Force Reserve recruiting and community relations objectives.

-- http://www.band.afrc.af.mil/organiza...ID=3704&page=1

I'm still waiting to hear from a band member on this as well; once I finish my article, I will be happy to share it.

I mentioned the Mitchell tartan because you said something about the Lady Jane being the USAF tartan, which it is not -- it is the USAF Reserve tartan.

Regards,

Todd