Non-Scottish Kilts? HUH?!?

[SSgt Baloo]

I've done a lot of reading up on the history of the kilt in the last couple of months. I know that the great kilt was worn in the closing years of the 16th century and that the kilt was distinctly (highland) Scottish garb until (I'm guessing) the nineteenth century. I've also discovered that there is not just a Scottish kilt, but an Irish kilt and a Welsh kilt.

I cannot for the life of me find any information regarding non-Scottish kilts. What's the diff? Are they constructed differently? Why did the Irish and Welsh adopt the kilt anyway? Didn't they have their own distintive garb?

--SSgt Baloo

[Andrew Green]

From all that I have read, the kilt IS distinctly Scottish (and I would have it no other way!)...but during the Victorian era, there was a sort of highland revival, and people who originally had nothing to do with kilt wearing got in on the craze. As far as I can tell, there is no difference in construction, just different tartans (many of which are very nice patterns). For more information you can check out Matt Newsome's site www.albanach.org. He has a number of really well written articles on there.

[MacWage]

. . . just different tartans (many of which are very nice patterns).


For more information you can check out Matt Newsome's site www.albanach.org. He has a number of really well written articles on there.

The tartans also seem to be by and large alternate colorings of Scot tartans. I noticed this a while back and thought (heeh???). Matt Newsome has an article on his site somewhere saying what I've suspected for a while-> MANY Irish and Welsh tartans (not all)= Scot tartans with different colors in same layout.

[chasem]

All the welsh tartans I have seen (read: maybe not all of them, but many) are not the same pattern in warp and weft. Also, Welsh tartan mills do not make the cloth with a cilting selvedge, and as such all Welsh Cilts (that I've heard of at least...) are made with a hem.

[macwilkin]

MacWage mentioned the blog article by our own Matt Newsome about Irish tartans; another good blog entryof Matt's deals with the kilt as a "pan-Celtic" garment:

http://blog.albanach.org/2005/04/kil...c-garment.html

Here's the original article, and more to read:

http://blog.albanach.org/2005/11/iri...artans-in.html

http://blog.albanach.org/2005/07/oh-dear.html

Cheers,

Todd

[ozmeath]

Scotts have kilts too?!!

[RockyR]

All the welsh tartans I have seen (read: maybe not all of them, but many) are not the same pattern in warp and weft. Also, Welsh tartan mills do not make the cloth with a cilting selvedge, and as such all Welsh Cilts (that I've heard of at least...) are made with a hem.

Part true...

The Welsh tartan mill (a particular mill in Wales that only weaves Welsh Tartans) weaves their inventory on an OLD loom that does NOT give the material a kilting selvedge. Their kilts must be hemmed.

OTHER mills DO make SELECT FEW Welsh tartans and THEY tend to have a "kilting selvedge".

About the warp and weft... again, it's part true. Certain Welsh tartans are identical warp and weft. Others (and probably the majority from the Welsh Tartan Mill), such as the St. David's, are NOT identical warp and weft... the result is a kilt that looks "vertically stripey".

Yes, "Vertically Stripey" is a very accepted industry term. HAHAHA

[Kizmet]

There are other cultures where men have worn pleated skirt garments. If you look up Greek, Bulgarian and and Albanian costumes for men, you'll find some.

[Chris Webb]

Wrap your mind around this one: Eventually this very day will be considered history and some Kilt Historian will be remarking on what he will undoubtedly call American Kilts, Candian Kilts and more. He will be able to point to specific modifications, changes in materials, colors, designs and even the drift from formal to informal wear.

No doubt most of us want to believe that the kilt is Scottish and that it was born in Scotland, I do. No doubt Scotland formalized the definition of the Kilt as an outfit, National Dress if you will. Welsh, Irish ... the kilt as a mans' garment has always been ... kilts came before pants. Even the old Testatment says God made an "Apron" for Adam out of animal skin.

Here in the USA, maybe even more so in Canada, Kilts are slowly evolving from Scottish to Scottish-American (or Scottish-Canadian) and will eventually, evolve into simply American and Canadian kilts. As the world becomes smaller and more and more countries field their own kilt suppliers they will finally just be considered Kilts.

Scotland will likely forever hold a special and well deserved claim to kilts as a mans' garment. I really don't think the modern kilting movement would have even began with out the fuel of Scottish Pride and Heritage behind it. Scotland took what always was and made it wonderful, I doubt that anyone will ever be able to hold ownership of the Kilt the way the Scots have.

But ... Kilts are bigger than Scotland and they are getting bigger all the time. There will however always be the Scottish Kilt, of this I'm sure.

Kilt On.

Chris Webb

[Colin]

Here in the USA, maybe even more so in Canada, Kilts are slowly evolving from Scottish to Scottish-American (or Scottish-Canadian) and will eventually, evolve into simply American and Canadian kilts.

Chris, while I obviously can't speak for all of my country, but I think that Canadians generally just except that the kilt is Scottish. I don't think we have a need to make it our own.

Canada has a long history of Scottish settlers, regiments, and culture (the ceilidh, curling, etc, etc, etc,etc,). I may be mistaken about the current status of the BlackWatch (Todd will sort me out I am sure), but with the amalgumation of the Scottish regiments, Scotland no longer has the Black Watch, yet Canada does. We aren't trying to take it away from the Scots, we instead thank them for their influence and contribution in the shaping (along with many others of course) of our country and it's make up.

Imagine this. Yesterday after finishing a work out, I watched two young guys (20ish) get ready to leave the gym. Both put on very sporran like purses for guys that slung over their shoulder. Now it was only sporran-like in that it was very slim and opened at the top. I have seen several of these around in the past year or two (yet some people still think kilts aren't excepted ). Now what if these were marketed as a "sporran" in name alone to attract a mass market. We know they aren't sporrans, yet Joe Walmart doesn't. So is this the new American sporran?

But ... Kilts are bigger than Scotland and they are getting bigger all the time

That's thanks to those good Vegas buffets, buddy

To keep on topic though, the article by Matt that has already been mentioned is fantastic and well worth the read. I am always suprised when I hear that the kilt is as associated with the Irish as with the Scots in the US.