Difference between an Ancient and Great Kilt?

[MacWage]

Not quite. The "belted plaid" in "Rob Roy" was two pieces - one used for the bottom, one used for the top, and NOT stitched together.

Other than that, it looked reasonably close to a belted plaid (or bhreacain feileadh).

In Rob Roy, there are a couple kilt types. At the beginning, it is a "regular" belted plaid (as can be seen as he takes a dip in the loch and "comes on" to Mary. He also wears the 2 peice one, clearly shown around the "fight" at the end. One is an attempt at a philabeg, but leans more to modern kilts than historic philabegs. Remember, the early philabegs were just belted plaids without the top half attatched. All in all, not too bad for Hollywood. In comparison, the 2 look a bit different and hang different in some scenes, though others look like something in between (making it hard to tell which is which.


For the newbies to have any idea what I just wrote:
philabeg-> Small kilt/little kilt-> as opposed to Great kilt

The original belted plaid was roughly 54 inches across (top to bottom) and measured 3 or 4 yards up to 6 yards long, with most in the 4 yard range. The typical weaving loom would make 27 inch wide fabric, so two lengths were sewn together lengthwise to make a belted plaid.
To make a philabeg was simply to either rip the seem or NOT SEW the two parts together. By the way, there are some references to what is probably (always a matter of debate) a philabeg decades before "that Englishman" was ever in Scotland.

[cbiegel]

Is it true that men wearing the philabeg might still wear the top half for practical reasons like keeping warn etc?

[Caradoc]

Is it true that men wearing the philabeg might still wear the top half for practical reasons like keeping warn etc?

Today we call that a "fly plaid."

[cbiegel]

Ah, I thought that was much smaller; more of a decoration.

[MacWage]

Modern fly plaids are a smaller derivative of the upper part. I am not sure how it would be held in place, the older detattched upper part that is (though a reenactor may know more than I in this matter). Generally, I think they just adopted a wool or jacket, which then further pushed the replacement of the belted plaid by the philabeg and the modern stitched kilt.
I KNOW that is what happened in the Brit Army. It is reasonably safe to assume the same in the civi-world too.

A Piper's plaid is also another modern form, though held more like a folded blanket than the upper part of a belted plaid.

So, Oatmeal Savage, have we satisfied your curiousity, or shall we continue?

[Caradoc]

Modern fly plaids are a smaller derivative of the upper part. I am not sure how it would be held in place, the older detattched upper part that is (though a reenactor may know more than I in this matter).

I've never seen a two-part "belted plaid" in the wild. Just in Hollyweird.

[Andrew Green]

I think the ancient kilt Oatmealsavage is referring to is the one offered by the Celtic Croft. While it may be convenient for re-enactment or whatnot...as far as I can tell, it is not an accurate piece. The belted plaide/great kilt is however. If you poke around Matt's site, you should find that there is evidence of the feilidh beag dating back to around 1690...which means that while uncommon, I don't think that they would have been unheard of around the 1730s or so (whenever Rob Roy the movie takes place), I don't know if there is any evidence of them being seen in the '15 (around the time period of Rob Roy the novel). I could see people wearing the cut off upper portion of the belted plaide for warmth... although I think that is referred to as a plaide in later terms (nopt to confuse with plaide as in the whole thing). Although the time period when this was adopted, I have no idea.

Brings up some interesting questions. Hopefully what info I did add wasn't off the mark.

[MacWage]

I've never seen a two-part "belted plaid" in the wild. Just in Hollyweird.

I've been -"TOLD"- there ws such a thing, at great detail.

YET, like most things I am "TOLD," I like to confirm it with those who are more specialized in expertise on the relevant field. I suspect that any such thing would have been reused as someting else, like a philabeg, in relatively short order, as the people went to a jacket. Therefore, I suspect that the belted plaid and philabeg was all that were -generally- used in the overlapping decades.