Difference between an Ancient and Great Kilt?

[Caradoc]

Is it true that men wearing the philabeg might still wear the top half for practical reasons like keeping warn etc?

Today we call that a "fly plaid."

[cbiegel]

Ah, I thought that was much smaller; more of a decoration.

[MacWage]

Modern fly plaids are a smaller derivative of the upper part. I am not sure how it would be held in place, the older detattched upper part that is (though a reenactor may know more than I in this matter). Generally, I think they just adopted a wool or jacket, which then further pushed the replacement of the belted plaid by the philabeg and the modern stitched kilt.
I KNOW that is what happened in the Brit Army. It is reasonably safe to assume the same in the civi-world too.

A Piper's plaid is also another modern form, though held more like a folded blanket than the upper part of a belted plaid.

So, Oatmeal Savage, have we satisfied your curiousity, or shall we continue?

[Caradoc]

Modern fly plaids are a smaller derivative of the upper part. I am not sure how it would be held in place, the older detattched upper part that is (though a reenactor may know more than I in this matter).

I've never seen a two-part "belted plaid" in the wild. Just in Hollyweird.

[Andrew Green]

I think the ancient kilt Oatmealsavage is referring to is the one offered by the Celtic Croft. While it may be convenient for re-enactment or whatnot...as far as I can tell, it is not an accurate piece. The belted plaide/great kilt is however. If you poke around Matt's site, you should find that there is evidence of the feilidh beag dating back to around 1690...which means that while uncommon, I don't think that they would have been unheard of around the 1730s or so (whenever Rob Roy the movie takes place), I don't know if there is any evidence of them being seen in the '15 (around the time period of Rob Roy the novel). I could see people wearing the cut off upper portion of the belted plaide for warmth... although I think that is referred to as a plaide in later terms (nopt to confuse with plaide as in the whole thing). Although the time period when this was adopted, I have no idea.

Brings up some interesting questions. Hopefully what info I did add wasn't off the mark.

[MacWage]

I've never seen a two-part "belted plaid" in the wild. Just in Hollyweird.

I've been -"TOLD"- there ws such a thing, at great detail.

YET, like most things I am "TOLD," I like to confirm it with those who are more specialized in expertise on the relevant field. I suspect that any such thing would have been reused as someting else, like a philabeg, in relatively short order, as the people went to a jacket. Therefore, I suspect that the belted plaid and philabeg was all that were -generally- used in the overlapping decades.

[Woodsheal]

It's not a "two-part belted plaid." After the philabeg replaced the belted plaid as the common garment - mainly after the Proscription was lifted - Highlanders working or travelling in the countryside still utilized "plaids" as upper-body wraps and blankets (so did Lowlanders,actually). These were of a smaller dimension than the old full-sized plaid, and carried in the manner of an over-the-shoulder blanket roll. You can see this in this engraving circa 1770:



This is what you see being done in the "Rob Roy" film, perhaps too early historically. However, the costume advisor for the movie was Peter MacDonald - a very knowlegeable fellow regarding the history of tartan and Highland garb....

[sirdaniel1975]

If you take your 4yard plaid for a feileadh-mhor and cut it length wise in the middle, you can simulate Liam Neison's garmet from "Rob Roy." By tucking the excess plaid (the shoulder piece), one can create the appearance of a feileadh-mhor. TRY IT! It will take some practice, but it can be done. This is what they probably did for the film. That's why some folks think he was wearing a feileadh-mhor and not a feileadh-beag.

Now, the actor playing Rob Roy's younger brother... I think they put him in a feileadh-mhor.

(The come on to Mary Scene): After Liam's swim/bath, I think he just puts on one of the halves of the plaid... Probably the half that was used as the upper portion. Interesting scene, b/c Highlander's typically only bathed once a year back then.

Interesting side note....
In 1998, when I worked at the STM with Matt... One day the tartan material from that film that Liam Neison wore was in the Museum.....

Matt came out of the office and says: "Hey Daniel!"

Me, "What?"

Matt, "touch this tartan"

I touch the tartan...

Matt, "Do you know what this is?"

Me, "No, but it looks familiar."

Matt, "It should, Liam Ne.....

you get the story.... sorry, I had to brag.

From what I've learned, the "Ancient Kilt style" used in Braveheart is not historical. Hollywood just could not make a film about Scotland's greatest hero and not put him in a kilt.. Hence the "Ancient Kilt." Think about it, the average person wouldn't recognize him as being Scottish without seeing him in a kilt.. So they probably theorized the width of the kilt from the width of a loom. If you watch your Braveheart DVD extra's, you'll see the "Irish Army" extra's fasten kilts to themselves that have draw strings (as my memmory serves me).. And the extra's kilts seem to be made from less yardage than Mel Gibson's kilt...