De-Anglicisation of Names

[MacWage]

Here is an interesting link to a surname profiler that shows the geographical distribution of surnames in two censuses of England, Scotland and Wales in the years 1881 and 1998. http://www.spatial-literacy.org/UCLnames/Surnames.aspx

I ran Wage but found nothing. There must have been at least 100 individuals with a surname in the 1998 Electoral Register for results. The profiler gave the name Wager instead. In 1881 it was most common in southeast England, near the Welsh border and in the Midlands (I think. My British geography isn't the best.)

"Latta" is shown to have been most common in 1881 a bit north of the border, around Glasgow and Edinburgh.

Of course, the only way to really know the origin of a name is through genealogical research, one generation at a time, starting with one's parents and working backward.

If Wages, Wagers, or Wager are ran on the 2 or 3 I've tried, it us in northwest England/Wales/Southwest Scotland area (roughly Liverpool./Manchester) and VERY small numbers in mid-late 1800s and then London area in late 1900s. The VERY few earlier references (mostly court) are to Edinburgh (a mid 1700s arrest and release), Sterling, and the northern borders area. There is a fast move south in VERY small numbers (leading some to speculate they were fleeing something). One lists the 25,000 most common names in Britain (further ones are probably mis-writes/typos) and Wages and Wagers were both at the last half of the 24,000s. Let's say it AIN"T common.

slohairt, thanks for ALL your help to SO many of us.
I called my cousin and ran it past him and he was VERY interested. ALL our family people INSIST we are Irish/Scotch-Irish/Scots, though I have NEVER seen any derivation that makes any sense. Wages is SO rare, which would be unexpected for an occupational name or laborer based name. As Mac Uais (pronounced MAC OO-ISH) is also EXTEMELY rare, and anglocised to Wage/MacWage (or maybe Wages), it JUST might have more beihind it than coincidence. About the largest cluster of Wages in the US is in Northeast Atlanta, Georgia and are virtually ALL descended from 1 man (Joel Wages, who seems to come out of nowhere) OR his brother, though I have not found much on his descendants and almost all claim Joel. THAT seems to be the largest cluster in the world and a sizable portion of ALL Wages.
Who knows, I might have "readopted" the old version of my own name by ACIDENT!!!

Thanks again,

(and I appologize to others and the moderators for my over-use of this thread).

[gilmore]

One thing to keep in mind using the profiler is Scots have been migrating south to work for quite some time.

That's certainly true, but nevertheless it is impressive how little people had moved from their ancestral areas by 1881, at least compared to Americans of 2006.

Take a look at the distributions for Campbell, Douglas, Stewart, MacPherson or other Scots names. By far, most of them were still in Scotland, even in 1998.

Or look at Jones, Prichard, Williams, or Reese. Of those 4, only Reese had much of any distribution outside of Wales in 1881, or the counties bordering it in 1998.

[gilmore]

ALL our family people INSIST we are Irish/Scotch-Irish/Scots, though I have NEVER seen any derivation that makes any sense. ).

You may be, and from what you said of your family's location, probably are, though perhaps not patrilineally. Our surname is only one of tens of thousands from which we descend.

[McClef]

You may be, and from what you said of your family's location, probably are, though perhaps not patrilineally. Our surname is only one of hundreds from whom we descend.

The surname possibilities increase with each generational regression.

Two parents, 4 grandparents, eight great grandparents etc etc.

Something I know I need to study in more depth!

[Wompet]

How about a gaelicization of Sackett? It's Norman or Saxon, depending which source one cites. The "sack" refers to either sacking wool, or sacking as in sacking, looting, and pillaging. And if you look at the link Gilmore re-posted, you can see where the family's been clustered for the last seven hundred years.
You've already mentioned the major Irish branch (Donnell) of my ancestors, and the Gaelic name of the main Scottish branch (Donnachaidh) is fairly well known.

[Deil the Yin]

Walker: This again! Ah, my friend you misunderstood what I meant. I meant that the etymology of the name Walker/Waulker itself is Lallans (i.e. Anglic) not the bearers who would be of varying origins. Many Highland clans have names which have no basis in the Gaelic language. Gunn, MacLeod, and Lamont come to mind. In fact, their progenitors were Norse! Does this mean that they are not full-blown Gaelic clans? Of course, they are! To suggest otherwise would be to tell a Fitzgerald or a Burke that he is not Irish!

Aah...yes, I certainly see how I miscontstrued your meaning. My apologies.

[slohairt]

Dia Dhuit!

SACKETT A Gaelic transliteration would be de Saicéad (IRISH) or Saiceud (SCOTTISH GAELIC). Both pronounced SACK-AID. By Donnell, I'm guessing you are referring to Ó Dónaill (older form: Ó Domhnaill) and Donnachaidh as Mac Donnachaidh. (Clan Robertson, if I remember correctly?)

Some of you may be wondering why I sometimes put "de" in front of some Gaelicised names. There is a tradition in Irish to do this to names of a descent other than native Irish. "de" means "of" or "from" in Irish as it does in French. (Which is probably where they borrowed it from, via Norman-French.)

[slohairt]

Dia Dhuit, mo charaí!

It's strange how this thread is morphing into a genealogical one, which wasn't really my intention at first. It's fascinating though, and I guess the two do go hand-in-hand at times.

So, here is a little bit about my surname and family. Hopefully, it isn't too boring!

Ó hAirt (pronounced OH HART or OH HERT) Descended from Art. Art is a personal name meaning noble bear or martial bear. (Some of these etymologies are pretty funny!) Art was apparently a minor Irish god of War, though I'm sure he didn't spawn us!
Clann Uí hAirt were of the Southern Uí Néill, and were one of the Four Tribes of Tara. Many say that the clan's founder was Art, son of semi-legendary Irish high-king Conn of the Hundred Battles and father of Cormac Mac Airt. This would be around the 1st or 2nd Century.
Things went great for awhile until the Normies came along. We were evicted from our native County Meath and, for some reason, decided to migrate to County Sligo. The greatest concentration of the surname remains in that county to this very day (and neighbouring counties such as Mayo, Leitrim, and Donegal).
Things became bad again (all too often in Irish history) and we lost our stomping grounds in Sligo (Ardtermon Castle, later home of the Anglo-Irish Gore-Booths).
I only have one ancestor from outside Ireland: My maternal grandmother, who is a Graham from Scotland and emigrated to Ireland when she was a teen. (I'm sure there are some Vikings and Normans lurking in the past; there always is, but no has owned up to it! )
I, myself, was born in Bunbeg, Co. Donegal and we emigrated to Canada when I was 4 years old. I went back to Ireland as a young adult and lived there for a few years but came back to Canada, which is where I will stay.

Ó hAirt is anglicised as O'Hart, O'Harte, Hart, and Harte. (These last two anglicisations can represent other names as well, such as English/Lowland Scots, Cornish, German, Dutch, and even Jewish!)

There is a variant: Mac Airt, though this is even less common. It is usually anglicised as Card or M(a)cCard.

[thescot]

How about Killman? There are both German and Scottish varriants from what I can find. (Killmans in Aberdeen and Kellmanns in Germany and Holland.)

BTW, thanks for your work here. It's enlightening.

[slohairt]

Dia Dhuit, An Albanaigh!

KILLMAN There are a couple of Scottish origins I found for this name:

1) Killman (also Kelman), from the Gaelic Caol Monaidh meaning narrow hill. Pronounced KALE MONEY. This name is located in and around Aberdeen.

2) You could consider the possibility that it's anglicised from Mac Calmain = son of Calman. Pronounced MAC CAL-IM-AWN. Calman means little dove. The "s" at the end of the variant you provided, Killmans, makes me think of this, as the terminal "s" in English often means son of. As for German and Dutch, this could just be a coincidence.