A question to stump the tartan experts.

[thescot]

Dread, I have absolutely no advice for you.

But I do say that having you around makes life a lot more interesting. You come up with some of the best stuff around, and I just gotta hand it to you.

Thanks for being Dreadbelly!

[Warlock]

I second that Dreadbelly! You sure make this interesting. Any chance you'll make it to the Grandfather Mountain Highland Games? Would love to meet ya!

[Dreadbelly]

Comcast Sucks! been trying to post for 15 minutes!

That said, Dreadbelly, mi Lad. Try Rocky's German-American Tartan. I think that that would go a long way in Honouring alot of your Heritage. All it's vast roots. It's also a very nice tartan. I support your endeavours 100%! Good on yae, Laddie!

Why German American exactly? Colour me uninformed.

My particular gypsy roots I believe begin in Bulgaria. It should also be noted that I seem to have some Cossack ancestry in there as well, from these bloodlines, which is a peculiar coinkidink because just the other day there was some discussion here about Cossacks and clans and an offer to join these clans. Both the Cossacks and the gypsies were free peoples who resisted authority and always sought to self rule. And I know very little about them.

I am absolutely ASTOUNDED as to how racially mixed I am. According to Social Security I am classified as a hispanic native american. Dad was hispanic, mom was native and mixed. Scots roots come from her side, as well as others... Gypsy, creole, there is with out a doubt Asian in there, I can't say for sure, but there is enough circumstancial evidence to support the notion, I believe I can safely say that I have all races tucked away in my bloodline. Mom's dad was mixed native american, Sicilian, and the Bulgarian bloodlines, gypsie and very likely cossack. Mom's mother's side has the Scots lines and all the other really, really mixed stuff.

One day it is a dream to have a little piece of something to honour them all.

[Warlock]

You're right of course Dread, old boy! I wrongly assumed your descent from the Nazi remark. I feel stupid as I know better than to assume anything. How about Rocky's American Heritage tartan? After all, America is the great melting pot. America is the one place where you can be anything and everything! It also, is a nice tartan. It is my humble opinion that if you Honour America, You Honour all who have sought Freedom here. Freedom from tyranny, persecution, terror, hate, oppression. It doesn't matter where you came from, if you don't honour your present situation.

[Warlock]

One more thing. I'm often asked "where are you from?" I always say, Proudly "I am an American!" It matters not that my Mother is Choctaw-Chickawsan-Cherokee nor that my Father is Scots-Irish Descent. I Honour all of my ancestry when I say; I am an American. Putting ANYTHING else before American, i.e. being a Hyphenated-American, is devisive. Just my 2 pesos.

[Kid Cossack]

Dread my friend, this is a stretch to end all stretches. The Russian word "cossack" came from observing the Kazakh nomads in Central Asia, and in Russian was originally used as a reference to serfs who fled to the East of Beyond to live without masters. Originally the word came from a Turkic phrase meaning "free man." Now, if you hie yesel over to www.district-tartans.com and click on tartan finder, then Europe, and then Kazakhstan, you'll see an artifact tartan, in blue and gold and black. It's listed as a Kazakhstan tartan, but that's just because it was found there. Who knows what tribe wove it? From the Kazakh nomads to the Cossacks in one easy step, and playing off the "free man" or "independent spirit" to the gypsy/Roma blood you've got . . . Matt Newsome lists this tartan as available woven to order, and I know someone who'd be willing to go in with you on the order. In fact, I actually AM someone who'd be willing to go in with you on the order.

However, I have also heard that the gypsies originated in India (allegedly proven through linguistic regression . . . ). Could a madras print possibly be appropriate?

Just throwing out ideas, amigo!

[Warlock]

I would be interested in going in on that as well. Find out a price.

[Dreadbelly]

Dread my friend, this is a stretch to end all stretches. The Russian word "cossack" came from observing the Kazakh nomads in Central Asia, and in Russian was originally used as a reference to serfs who fled to the East of Beyond to live without masters. Originally the word came from a Turkic phrase meaning "free man." Now, if you hie yesel over to www.district-tartans.com and click on tartan finder, then Europe, and then Kazakhstan, you'll see an artifact tartan, in blue and gold and black. It's listed as a Kazakhstan tartan, but that's just because it was found there. Who knows what tribe wove it? From the Kazakh nomads to the Cossacks in one easy step, and playing off the "free man" or "independent spirit" to the gypsy/Roma blood you've got . . . Matt Newsome lists this tartan as available woven to order, and I know someone who'd be willing to go in with you on the order. In fact, I actually AM someone who'd be willing to go in with you on the order.

However, I have also heard that the gypsies originated in India (allegedly proven through linguistic regression . . . ). Could a madras print possibly be appropriate?

Just throwing out ideas, amigo!

Maybe when I have the money.

[Ialtog]

It looks like you might run into the same problem with Capercaillie tartan - having to order it special woven.

I ran across this website though: http://www.scottishgypsies.co.uk/

I got to thinking that if you wanted to honor this strand of your family, it might be easier (and less expensive) to perhaps choose a district tartan from Scotland where Gypsies lived. The district tartans often utilize colors reflecting the land, rather than a family, thereby allowing you to focus on the colors of the areas these people lived in. Maybe this would be an acceptable way of honoring them. Also, many of these Gypsies (or Egyptians as they were often called in Scotland) were forcibly removed to the Carolinas in the US. The Carolina tartan might also be a "melting pot" selection that would work for you.

[Dreadbelly]

It looks like you might run into the same problem with Capercaillie tartan - having to order it special woven.

I ran across this website though: http://www.scottishgypsies.co.uk/

I got to thinking that if you wanted to honor this strand of your family, it might be easier (and less expensive) to perhaps choose a district tartan from Scotland where Gypsies lived. The district tartans often utilize colors reflecting the land, rather than a family, thereby allowing you to focus on the colors of the areas these people lived in. Maybe this would be an acceptable way of honoring them. Also, many of these Gypsies (or Egyptians as they were often called in Scotland) were forcibly removed to the Carolinas in the US. The Carolina tartan might also be a "melting pot" selection that would work for you.

In 1571, an Act of stringency was passed upon them and all the hangers-on which they attracted - bards, minstrels and vagabond scholars. During the next thirty-three years the penalties on the Gypsies increased, just as in England. The Court Records show how hanging, drowning and being deported were the order of the day for those convicted of being Gypsies.
An Act passed in 1579 refers to the gypsies as 'the idle peopil calling themselves Egyptians'.
This Act included the requirement that any person found to be a gypsy was to be nailed to a tree by the ears, and thereafter to have the said ears cut off.
In 1603, the Privy Council ordered the entire race of gypsies to leave Scotland by a certain date, never to return on pain of death.

Oooh I don't like this at all. Horrors! Nailed to a tree by your ears just for being a gypsy? And that whole never to return on pain of death thing... Ugh.

Gypsies seem to be the last acceptable target for racism.