Women in Kilts?

[KiltedKnight]

Has it not been shown in this thread that a kilted skirt can have right hip buckling and still be a kilted skirt? Now you say "the same cut" & "the same length" add the buckles on the right it is still a "kilted skirt" is it not? Then could not a woman wearing a kilt actually be wearing a kilted skirt by virtue of being a women alone?

Perhaps you haven't noticed that men's clothing and women's clothing are made differently and have been for a couple hundred years.

A woman's blouse opens from the left and a man's shirt opens from the left. A kilted skirt opens from the left and a man's kilt opens from the right. That cannot be that difficult to understand and no matter how much anyone relies on someone else's misguided opinion about where the buckles belong, a woman's skirt, kilted or no, still opens from the left.

Chris.

[Panache]

I was given a very nice white men's dress shirt with french cuffs. Sadly it proved to be a size too small. I gave this shirt to my lovely wife, the F-H.C.A.G. She wears it and it looks smashing on her. She has recieved nothing but compliments. On her it becomes feminine. I wear a thin black women's belt as a sporran strap. It works very well. On me it is masculine. Ditto with the brass snake pin that my wife gave me that I wear as a kilt pin. As a lapel pin it would be feminine, as a kilt pin it becomes masculine.

I believe Eric Clapton said "It's just the way that you use it"

Cheers

[Erisianmonkey]

Any time you start claiming that "X cannot wear Y" you are headed in the same direction as the twonks who try to claim a man in a kilt is cross-dressing. No, you're not doing the exact same thing, and no, I'm not claiming that you are going to end up there, what I am saying is that you're on the same track. We've got enough of an uphill battle trying to get more people in the world kilted, shunning and pissing off someone who wants to wear a kilt just because you don't like their gender is a bad idea.

[pipesndrumsnun]

This has certainly been a fabulous discussion!

[The F-H.C.A.G.]

Adam and Eve didn't have navels.

Sorry, was just trying to get a small laugh.

You got it-thank you!

Tim:

I'd agree there! Personally, I'm kind of odd. I find strength and independence to be TREMENDOUSLY sexy. Watching women hobbled by their tight skirts just seems . . . impractical. A long running argument between the Better Half and the Worse Half (that would be, respectively, Mrs. Kid Cossack and Mr. Kid Cossack!) exists over pretty but uncomfortable shoes. I maintain that an uncomfortable shoe CAN NOT be pretty, since it makes you uncomfortable, and "comfortable is pretty."

Foot binding was very fashionable in China, but definitely not comfortable. The basic idea is to be sure the women can't run away. Tight skirts would seem to fit the same idea. Personally, I like a skirt with a lot of flare, for dancing, and there are plenty of those out there, with plenty of leg room for running, etc. I don't have much urge to wear a man's kilt, but I must say, I do not feel even slightly threatened by men who choose to wear women's clothing.

Perhaps, since women have, at least historically, been considered "inferior" to men and have been "oppressed" by men, we have adopted men's clothing as a way to empower ourselves. If this is the case, I cannot imagine why men would choose to wear women's clothing, unless they want to feel less empowered. There is a pretty common pattern among overly stressed Japanese business-men who want to dress as babies and be fed bottles and have their diapers changed. I think this is a reaction to the stress of responsibility and thus power. But then, take Eddy Izzard-a well known cross-dressing, yet very heterosexual comic (a favorite of Panache's, I might add). He just likes women's clothes. I just like men's pants and shirts, most likely because they are better made than women's. But, I still don't want to wear a man's kilt-women's skirts just look better on me. But, as has been said before-if she wants to wear a man's kilt-Bully for her!

Be well,

[staticsan]

A woman's blouse opens from the left and a man's shirt opens from the left. A kilted skirt opens from the left and a man's kilt opens from the right. That cannot be that difficult to understand and no matter how much anyone relies on someone else's misguided opinion about where the buckles belong, a woman's skirt, kilted or no, still opens from the left.

It is somewhat ironic that the reasons for this are little more than historical inertia. Although a quick Google search fails to find me anything definitive, it does have something to do with how people were dressed when button-down shirts (for example) became widespread. Whilst shirts for men open almost exclusively to the right, shirts for women open both ways, thus showing that practicality eventually wins.

This all sounds very familiar! Since the whole purpose of men wearning kilts outside of Scottish Historical Events is to put aside a lot of such historical baggage, which way the apron of a women's kilt folds ought to be largely up to the owner of the garment.

Ya know, I wouldn't be hugely surprised if left-handed males decided they liked the apron to fold to the left...

Wade.

[Dreadbelly]

You know, a left handed kilt would be nice, I hate to say it.

[SnakeEyes]

I have a number of shirts and pants that button on the left, and I'm pretty sure they were made for men since I bought them In the men's department...

[Monkey@Arms]

I recall two versions for the button on the left v. right thing. One is that when drawing a sword carried on your left hip, a man wouldn't want to get it entangled with his garment, hence the garment opens to the right. The other was that wealthy women had servants to button them, and that this easier to do if the fastenings are to the left. Both explanations may be apocryphal, but it helps me remember which was to thread my belt.

Best regards,

Jake

[Nanook]

Perhaps you haven't noticed that men's clothing and women's clothing are made differently and have been for a couple hundred years.

I need to strongly disagree and refer you to read my earlier message in this thread.

A woman's blouse opens from the left and a man's shirt opens from the left.

Many women's "blouses" (a name not exclusive to women's garb) have their buttons to the right and others to the left. Are the ones with buttons on the right really effeminate men's shirts?

A kilted skirt opens from the left and a man's kilt opens from the right.

Many women's kilted skirts close to the right . All wrap around skirts from (royal-warrant holder) Kinloch Anderson close to the right . Their box pleated skirt is not wrap around. It has a zipper to the left .

I do know of many designers that place their skirt closures to the front, left, right, rear and various offset positions. Among the skirts with fly front (zipper and button and/or press-stub) many (but not all) even close right (like a pair of Levi's 501 jeans).

I have seen vintage (pre-war) men's kilts that closed to the left.

The fact of the matter is: nearly all contemporary women's skirts are derived from male garments. They literally cast their shrouds aside to wear male symbols. The "short skirt" that many here fear their kilts are being mistaken for is indeed a garment with a male heritage (much directly from Highland kilts and Greek Foustanela) . While I know of many historical short skirts (knee of shorter) worn by men I know of none that were worn by women (save in fiction). Its relatively modern that men have taken to the pursuit of uniformity (not to stand out) rather than (as in nature) ostentatious display ("peacock"). Many of the "founding fathers" of the United States ran about in
lace, silk-velvets with frills, pumps, wigs and make-up. Today at the Central Criminal Court ("Old Bailey") one finds judges in formal robes with wigs on their heads and "pumps" (court shoes) on their feet.

"So after 1635, the correctly-dressed judge would have worn a black robe faced with miniver (a light-coloured fur) in winter, and violet or scarlet robes, faced with shot-pink taffeta, in summer. A black girdle, or cincture, was worn with all robes." [ from: http://www.judiciary.gov.uk/about_ju...tory/index.htm ]

That cannot be that difficult to understand and no matter how much anyone relies on someone else's misguided opinion about where the buckles belong, a woman's skirt, kilted or no, still opens from the left.

Nanook "misguided" of the North :-)