Kiltstore.net kilts

[arrogcow]

By shady I meant several things first the prices do sometimes change from page to page (yes it's only $1.50, but still weird). I admit that it is not doing it today (I just checked), but it has done it most times I have been to your site. It probably is a cache thing, but like much on you site, it probably needs to be looked at. The other thing is that if your cache system is speeding up your site, then you have other problems, because your's is one of the slowest sites I ever look at (I tried going through the kilt order process this morning and some pages took over 30 sec to load). It drives me nuts waiting for pages on your (and your sister sites) shop.

But regardless of that, with your system, you don't know what you're paying for a kilt until you pick a tartan. All other kilt shops on line have different catagories (all kilts on this page are $X.xx, all on this page are $Y.yy), your advance search idea would never occur to anyone. Clicking on a link for $328 kilts says to me that the kilts should cost $328, and then when I find they cost $387 (the cost of the sample I deciced to click on randomly this morning), I get a little discouraged (it's called bait and switch in the US).

As for your prices, I did not accuse you of artifically raising them. I pointed out that they were high. I will grant you that you use an outside kilt firm, and the company I compared you to uses inhouse kilt makers so that is probably why they are cheaper (still made in Scotland, not imported slave labor kilts, as you implied).

However you insist that you are fairly priced on other items. As an example you mention your leather kilts. Yes the $715.88 (X-marks price) you sell for is much lower than the $2450 of a TFCK. But in all fairness TFCK is a high end fashion hours with their own grossly inflated prices. Now Utilikilt sells a leather for $625.85, RKilts go for $638.03 (US) and Union Kilts leathers are only $514.74 (these prices are for Black, Rkilts go up to $701.83 for the more exotic colors, but then yours go up to $804.42). Maybe your kilts are better, others will have to judge.

So maybe your prices are comparable in accessories. Just last week, I bought a belt and some hose from the same kilt vendor I mentioned in my first post. I have found the exact same products on your web site (not Bazaar merchant look alike), let's see how they stack up (all prices were found as I was writing this post).

Your Price (X-Marks Discount) Their Price (Sale Price)
Belt $41.82 37.38 32.52 29.27
Hose $18.44 16.50 15.08 13.57
Just for fun I found sporrans and OTR tweed jackets (again same product on the sporrans and comparable jackets)
Sporran $125.74 112.02 97.72 87.95
tweed jacket $335.12 299.60 268.87 241.98

Do I need to keep going on. Their every day prices are significantly lower than your discount prices

Now as Ron has said many times you can have any 2 of (Price, Quality and Service). Your company has quality and service (be proud of that, stop defending your prices), the company I'm comparing you to has quality and price (everyone that has dealt with them will tell you their service sucks - though it only took a week to get the hose and belt). I personally will go for the second option every time, but there are those here that want to be in constant communication with whom ever they are dealing with, expicially when a kilt is on order. You serve them.

Finally Fed Ex ALWAYS charges the duty AND a fee. Royal mail/USPS sometimes misses the duty and NEVER adds a fee (so even when you do get hit, it is less).

Adam

[Colin]

Maybe we can hear from more people that have actually dealt with Kiltstore.

The service reputation of kiltstore.net, not to mention the very gratious 10% discount offered to Xmarks members, may have me ordering from them in the future as I have not yet. The pricing may fluctuate, but given the exchange rates these days and the conversions I am not suprised. True Kiltstore does not have a set price per kilt, but look at the massive selection these guys have available! I don't know if I would have used the word shady, just because of the implications that that brings up.

I am not a fan of FedEx (well run company, but they like to play by their rules), but after spending 10 years as a shipper/receiver I can tell you every business and courier has some shipping issues from time to time.

I think Adam is right in that Kiltstore has a great reputation for quality and service. In the past 3 or so years that I have been here, I have not heard any complaints about their product or service that did no include the statement "resolved" soon after. Keep up the great work Nick and thanks for always adding a personal touch to questions and comments in the kiltstore section of the forum.

[porrick]

By shady I meant several things first the prices do sometimes change from page to page (yes it's only $1.50, but still weird). I admit that it is not doing it today (I just checked), but it has done it most times I have been to your site. It probably is a cache thing, but like much on you site, it probably needs to be looked at. The other thing is that if your cache system is speeding up your site, then you have other problems, because your's is one of the slowest sites I ever look at (I tried going through the kilt order process this morning and some pages took over 30 sec to load). It drives me nuts waiting for pages on your (and your sister sites) shop.

But regardless of that, with your system, you don't know what you're paying for a kilt until you pick a tartan. All other kilt shops on line have different catagories (all kilts on this page are $X.xx, all on this page are $Y.yy), your advance search idea would never occur to anyone. Clicking on a link for $328 kilts says to me that the kilts should cost $328, and then when I find they cost $387 (the cost of the sample I deciced to click on randomly this morning), I get a little discouraged (it's called bait and switch in the US).

As for your prices, I did not accuse you of artifically raising them. I pointed out that they were high. I will grant you that you use an outside kilt firm, and the company I compared you to uses inhouse kilt makers so that is probably why they are cheaper (still made in Scotland, not imported slave labor kilts, as you implied).

However you insist that you are fairly priced on other items. As an example you mention your leather kilts. Yes the $715.88 (X-marks price) you sell for is much lower than the $2450 of a TFCK. But in all fairness TFCK is a high end fashion hours with their own grossly inflated prices. Now Utilikilt sells a leather for $625.85, RKilts go for $638.03 (US) and Union Kilts leathers are only $514.74 (these prices are for Black, Rkilts go up to $701.83 for the more exotic colors, but then yours go up to $804.42). Maybe your kilts are better, others will have to judge.

So maybe your prices are comparable in accessories. Just last week, I bought a belt and some hose from the same kilt vendor I mentioned in my first post. I have found the exact same products on your web site (not Bazaar merchant look alike), let's see how they stack up (all prices were found as I was writing this post).

Your Price (X-Marks Discount) Their Price (Sale Price)
Belt $41.82 37.38 32.52 29.27
Hose $18.44 16.50 15.08 13.57
Just for fun I found sporrans and OTR tweed jackets (again same product on the sporrans and comparable jackets)
Sporran $125.74 112.02 97.72 87.95
tweed jacket $335.12 299.60 268.87 241.98

Do I need to keep going on. Their every day prices are significantly lower than your discount prices

Now as Ron has said many times you can have any 2 of (Price, Quality and Service). Your company has quality and service (be proud of that, stop defending your prices), the company I'm comparing you to has quality and price (everyone that has dealt with them will tell you their service sucks - though it only took a week to get the hose and belt). I personally will go for the second option every time, but there are those here that want to be in constant communication with whom ever they are dealing with, expicially when a kilt is on order. You serve them.

Finally Fed Ex ALWAYS charges the duty AND a fee. Royal mail/USPS sometimes misses the duty and NEVER adds a fee (so even when you do get hit, it is less).

Adam

Hmm, I have been following this post (ok, I have posted too), and I had intended to merely follow. But, I can't alwayd manage to keep my trap shut.

If ones main interest is always buying things at the lowest possible price I may see the relevance of your post, but in most cases of buying merchandise - be it clothes, automobiles or what have you - there are price differences in the market. There is a simple way to approach this:

1) you settle for the non-cheapest product for numerous reasons as convenience, selection, quality, customer service etc

or

2) you do not wish to pay anything more than the most reasonable alternative. If so, just walk away. Does it really matter that some have higher prices than others? Nobody is forcing you to buy

There are plenty of us who for our reasons appreciate alternative 1) above.

I guess it all has to do with priorities.

No offence intended - just my humble 2 cents worth.

Happy shopping

rgds from
patrick, a happy kiltstore shopper

[Hamish]

Hmm, I have been following this post (ok, I have posted too), and I had intended to merely follow. But, I can't alwayd manage to keep my trap shut.

If ones main interest is always buying things at the lowest possible price I may see the relevance of your post, but in most cases of buying merchandise - be it clothes, automobiles or what have you - there are price differences in the market. There is a simple way to approach this:

1) you settle for the non-cheapest product for numerous reasons as convenience, selection, quality, customer service etc

or

2) you do not wish to pay anything more than the most reasonable alternative. If so, just walk away. Does it really matter that some have higher prices than others? Nobody is forcing you to buy

There are plenty of us who for our reasons appreciate alternative 1) above.

I guess it all has to do with priorities.

No offence intended - just my humble 2 cents worth.

Happy shopping

rgds from
patrick, a happy kiltstore shopper

Very well stated, Patrick. I wanted to say exactly this but you have done so far more eloquently than my feeble, unpublished attempt. Thank you.

[arrogcow]

If ones main interest is always buying things at the lowest possible price I may see the relevance of your post, but in most cases of buying merchandise - be it clothes, automobiles or what have you - there are price differences in the market. There is a simple way to approach this:

1) you settle for the non-cheapest product for numerous reasons as convenience, selection, quality, customer service etc

or

2) you do not wish to pay anything more than the most reasonable alternative. If so, just walk away. Does it really matter that some have higher prices than others? Nobody is forcing you to buy

There are plenty of us who for our reasons appreciate alternative 1) above.

I guess it all has to do with priorities.

No offence intended - just my humble 2 cents worth.

Happy shopping

rgds from
patrick, a happy kiltstore shopper

That was my point. Nick took umbrage that I said his prices were high, and claimed that they were not. I proved him wrong using identical products (not look alikes not knock offs). So using your 4 alternate reasons to buy lets - quality is the same, convieninece is the same (both online only retailers where you can shop any time) selection is the same (again same item - does Nick sell more things? yes, but if there is no competition they you do have to pay what ever) finally service - Nick is above reproach in service, no argument. And that is what Nick should be touting, that he has fantastic service, not trying to claim he has the best prices when clearly he does not. I can justify, in many ways, why his prices are higher and that it could be a good thing.

And yes shady was probably a bad word, but I can't come up with a better one (though badly designed web site comes to mind). As a customer I want to know prices before I take the time to build an order. I've never been to another kilt makers web site (or any other retail site that I can think of) where prices weren't the first thing available (and I have over 25 kilt maker/retailer sights bookmarked).

Adam

[McClef]

Being in the UK I obviously don't have such Fed Ex issues to deal with.

Here in the UK we get offered a choice of options, carrier for which we pay a fee or free for which we don't.

Whereas free isn't going to be viable for long distance shipping it might be beneficial to offer an element of choice for shipping as Fed Ex-phobic customers may be put off placing an order in the first place?

Just a thought.

[JerryMacP]

I also thought the word 'shady' was unnecessarily rude Adam, unless an accusation of deliberate criminality was really what you meant to imply. That's what it suggests to me anyway. And the 'bait and switch' reference I also found pretty abusive, given that you'd already had an explanation that would mean any price differences would as likely be over as under. I know how easy it is to get carried away and sprays insults around online, as I'm known to do so myself. But in my more sober moments I also know these sorts of forums work best when everyone observes basic conventions of mutual respect. Not everyone has the thick skin that I'm guessing you take for granted. If it were me I'd feel an apology was due. But hey, you're a Noble and I'm a mere newbie, so what would I know.

[arrogcow]

I also thought the word 'shady' was unnecessarily rude Adam, unless an accusation of deliberate criminality was really what you meant to imply. That's what it suggests to me anyway. And the 'bait and switch' reference I also found pretty abusive, given that you'd already had an explanation that would mean any price differences would as likely be over as under. I know how easy it is to get carried away and sprays insults around online, as I'm known to do so myself. But in my more sober moments I also know these sorts of forums work best when everyone observes basic conventions of mutual respect. Not everyone has the thick skin that I'm guessing you take for granted. If it were me I'd feel an apology was due. But hey, you're a Noble and I'm a mere newbie, so what would I know.

Maybe just a language crossing the pond problem. Shady, meaning not being completely forthright, not criminal.

Bait and switch on the other hand is accurate (to a degree). It means that you go in expecting to pay one price, only to discover that everything actually costs more (In the US you used to get stores advertising things like TVs for $100, only to discover that they had one for sale that is, of course not gone, but look at all these other ones for $200). Kilt store has a few tartans at the price on the first page, none are cheaper, and most cost considerably more.

As for being thick skinned, mutual respect and an apology. First I have said that their reputation for service is stellar. I have not insulted their products (on the other hand I refer to your post about the Gold brothers http://www.xmarksthescot.com/forum/s...ad.php?t=11440 , not that I don't agree, their stuff isn't worth anything). And I have not sugested that people not do business there (again which two do you want; price, quality, service). What I have done is give excellent customer feedback on why I don't shop there. This is actually valuable info. While I am not in league with Ron or Ham, I still expect to spend over $700 this year on kilts/accessories. Most businesses have someone who's job is to see to it that that $700 is theirs.

And being more expensive is not necessicarally bad. I receintly had a prospective client ask about my day rates (freelance camera man). When I told her, she nearly choked, and told me that they usually paid half that. I took the gig anyway, but I usually carry nearly $2000 of gear with me (and it all comes in handy) and none went on this gig. This client wanted price , most of my clients want quality and service, which is why my rates are what they are.

I am sorry if anyone thought I was accusing them of any criminal activity, however.

Adam

[Colin]

I still don't see how this is a bait and switch type scenario. I have gone onto the Kiltstore site numerous times. Yes, I select the 8 yard kilt that has one a set price, but it has been based on tartan for some time now. There is no hidden cost, nor is there a "well if you want that, you'll have to buy this too" type of play. Personally, when I am looking to buy a kilt and do the research and check to see if they have the tartan I want. When I find that tartan at kiltstore.net it is showing me the price I would be paying before shipping. I don't see that as deceptive at all. After all, I can chose to proceed or go with another firm. It's nothing at all like walking in wanting the TV in the flier only to find out they only carry the next model up.

To each their own, I expect internet businesses to be conducted differently from each other. Otherwise I would pick one shop and stick with it.

By the way, sorry if it feels like I am adding to the pile on Arrogcow, I see your point, but wanted to address one specific part of it. Nothing personal, as I am sure your post was not a personal to Nick.

[JerryMacP]

Maybe just a language crossing the pond problem. Shady, meaning not being completely forthright, not criminal.

As you say, I suspect there's some cultural difference here, between us effete Brits and you straight-talkin' settlers. I was just reporting my own response when reading your initial words. I'm sure no offence was intended.

But without wanting to flog this to death, I'd like to clarify my point about politeness. For me there's a world of difference between being rude about someone behind their back, and being rude to their face. Maybe it's hypocritical, but it's also the stuff that makes societies functional, and prevents web boards descending into flame wars. So if I'm talking about someone I despise who is not present, I will happily criticise and condemn in no uncertain terms with the best of them. But face to face I'd still feel it important to maintain a basic tone of civility and fairness in expressing to them my reservations about their business practice. My point here was that the person who you were talking about in language that might easily be taken, even if not meant, as insulting (who'd already said they felt hurt by earlier words) was in the room and taking part in the conversation.