Our Tartan Expert routes a weasel!!!!

[MacWage]

I'd just like to point out Matt Newsome's newest blog on the International Tartans North Carolina (and South Carolina Tartans) rip-off artistics.
http://blog.albanach.org/2007/03/int...-it-again.html

I STRONGLY agree with Matt here!!!!
Their table last year at the Greenville Games was an exercise in deception and I think BOTH Matt and I REALLY POed the guy (independantly)!!

International Tartans is THE REASON I know am finishing up a 16 oz Carolina tartan box pleat!!

An example of what Matt talks of on the new version of the site is:
http://www.internationaltartans.co.u...outh-carolina/

"The South Carolina tartan was created to strengthen the bonds of kinship between the peoples of Scotland and the State of South Carolina, and for the benefit and well-being of the people of the State of South Carolina.
The colours are taken from the colours of the Scottish Saltire and the State Flag of South Carolina. The tartan for all true South Carolinians.
Dissatisfied with the fact that the patronisingly named Carolina tartan had been adopted by the legislatures of both North and South Carolina as their State symbol, Mary Katherine Hurt of Sumpter, SC contacted International Tartans to confirm the existence of the North Carolina tartan, and instantly commissioned one for her own State.
Although attempts have been made to discredit it by some with a vested interest in the Carolina tartan, the South Carolina has proved to be popular in ‘the Palmetto State’. In the words of Matt Newsome, custodian of the Scottish Tartans Museum in Charlotte.
…in some instances, a tartan may be “unofficially” approved for a district by wont and usage. In other words, if a particular tartan is being manufactured and sold for a particular district, and people are buying and wearing that tartan to represent that district, then over time the tartan becomes generally accepted as a district tartan through no one’s authority other than the weavers and wearers.
District Tartans: An Introduction
Adapted from ‘The Compendium of District Tartans’ by Newsome & Bullman"

THAT is MUCH better than it was, but STILL has deceit behind the phrasing, as if Carolina was "forced" upon the state by outside interest, rather than being created/developed/adapted (in this case a bit of all 3) FOR the state by those IN the Carolinas. YET, as Matt says in his blog . . . I could GET Carolina made for me in a custom run, BUT NOT IT's "South Carolina." THAT makes Carolina the State Tartan, while IT's "South Carolina" is a copyrighted "fashion tartan."
By the way: Sumter is spelled Sumter, though (like Clemson), it is pronounced "Sumpter."
Southern (like Scots) has an "imvisible P" in some words (esp. names), much like Thompson and so forth.

[Panache]

Interesting reading. I hadn't checked Matt's blog for a while.

I'm so sorry to hear that the Scottish Tartans Museum is now defunct...

Cheers

Panache

[M. A. C. Newsome]

I love how McGill calls the Carolina tartan "patronizingly named"... what gives? MacWage, you and I are both Carolinians... do you feel patronized by the name of the tartan? I sure don't!

In his description of the North Carolina tartan, he calls the Carolina tartan "mysteriously named and mysteriously provenanced." Uh.... okay Jose. Whatever.

In a personal letter her wrote to me a while ago, he expressed the fact that he doesn't think the Carolina tartan is a good tartan. He thinks it is a poor design, he thinks the legislation formally adopting it as the state tartan (in both states) was poor, and he thinks most of all that it makes no sense for two different states to share a single tartan.

On this last point, perhaps being in Edinburgh and not from the Carolinas he has no idea how close the bonds of these two states are, and how many North Carolinians feel just as at home in SC as in NC, and vice versa.

Different states share symbols all the time. For instance, both NC and VA have the cardinal as their state bird. Also, the same tartan is often used by more than one group. Reference our recent threads here on the Black Watch tartan, which is also Campbell, Hunting Munro, Hunting Grant, Sutherland district, et al.

McGill simply does not know what he is talking about.

(For those of you who don't know the background, the Carolina tartan was designed by Peter MacDonald, tartan expert from Perth, Scotland, in 1981 at the request of St. Andrews societies in both NC and SC. In 1991 NC adopted formal legislation approving it as a state symbol. In 2002, SC formally adopted it through legislation in that state. McGill designed his "North Carolina" and "South Carolina" tartans in 2003 and neither have any official standing with the states for which they are named.)

[MacWage]

(For those of you who don't know the background, the Carolina tartan was designed by Peter MacDonald, tartan expert from Perth, Scotland, in 1981 at the request of St. Andrews societies in both NC and SC. In 1991 NC adopted formal legislation approving it as a state symbol. In 2002, SC formally adopted it through legislation in that state. McGill designed his "North Carolina" and "South Carolina" tartans in 2003 and neither have any official standing with the states for which they are named.)

The Carolina tartam was based and modified from a tartan associated with Prince Charles Stuart (the red and green portions are extremely close to Royal Stewart). MacDonald actually designed it in the present Carolina Tartan form at (as Matt points out) by the COMBINED St Andrews Societies of North AND South Carolina. So, it is: created/developed/adapted (in this case a bit of all 3) FOR the state by those IN the Carolinas.

Actually the two states are collectively called "The Carolinas" almost as much as North Carolina and South Carolina. Between them, it is a bit like brothers. We pick and jib back and forth, but bring in a Virginian, a Tennessean, or a Californian and its as if the Carolinians are the SAME. It's actually quite funny. As I was raised in Georgia, I am called an "adopted" Carolinian, though my mother (and all her family), my wife, and my kids are born here and I have been here since graduating high school. Often sports teams are the Carolina________, for BOTH states to varying effectivness.

[Arlen]

You know, I'd heard of all the fuss over some of the Scottish District tartans that he designed without any real input or requests. (And made eerily similar to those already existing tartans he wanted to replace)
I thought he was more than a little untrustworthy because of that.
Now I'm reading all of this and seeing he's an egotistical eejit as well.
It's seems to me that he's the kind of person who thinks that anyone can wear a kilt but only a Scotsman can actually 'know' anything about it all.
Frankly, he makes me kind of ashamed to be from the same country as him.
I'm far more inclined to listen to and learn from M. A. C. Newsome than from McGill.

[Kilted KT]

wow. Another loony trying to make a buck of those of us who he thinks aren't intelligent enough to know what tartan we are looking for, and who to ask for the legitimacy of a new tartan!

here's to ya, Matt. Excellent article.

[MacWage]

IT's tartans actually don't look that bad (though many are color variations of the same pattern-> look at their group pics and it's OBVIOUS).
IF the South Carolina wasn't dealt with in the underhanded manner it is, I would actually like a kilt in it. It is actually quite nice looking. As things are, I wouldn't TOUCH it with intent to buy.

What Rocky did is an ENTIRELY different deal, by how he advertises and comments on them. There is no deception!
HERE, HERE Rocky!!!

What "gets my goat" on IT is the MANNER that it is sold (deceptive) and how they presented it at the Greenville Games particularly (as if it was THE South Carolina tartan, with "history," maps, and state trinkets as well)!

[brandycr]

First I heard of this .Waves hands was at games in Greenville walked there from house can see campus from house.Kids had a blast it was thier first taste of thier ancestry.My two year old said me like them kilt skirts(lol)I want one so he left sporting his first.Thought my mom would cry when she seen him in it.

[MacWage]

First I heard of this .Waves hands was at games in Greenville walked there from house can see campus from house.Kids had a blast it was thier first taste of thier ancestry.My two year old said me like them kilt skirts(lol)I want one so he left sporting his first.Thought my mom would cry when she seen him in it.

It was a small table giving away free haggis (he was also selling canned vegitarian Haggis). The booth had a large picture of South Carolina and a sign saying "South Carolina's Tartan." I talked with the rep. and got a card, so I could remember who it was as I tried to find out WHO they were and what the basis of their claims were.

[brandycr]

Seen that (ewwww glad didnt get any )canned haggis.