Cockcade or Rosette?

**Don Patrick** · 16th June 07, 01:43 PM

Looking through the different posts, I don't believe I've seen any that address the Cockcade or Rosette for a cap. Anyone one know the traditions or history behind them?

**Robin** · 16th June 07, 01:57 PM

The Jacobite cockade was a white rose (from cloth), Cumberland's army used a black cockade (the redcoats a rosette).
The rosette on the glengarry is a remnant of these.

**Don Patrick** · 16th June 07, 05:45 PM

Thanks Robin. Your information is a great help. Any idea concerning the difference between the wearing of the plant badge and the clan crest on the cockcade? ...or is it really a normal state of affairs to wear the clan crest on a cap?

My impression was these cockcades may have been used to keep the badges from damaging the wool of the cap - or were the cockades around before the badges?

**fluter** · 16th June 07, 07:42 PM

You can have lots of fun with combinations of colors, too.

When the French allied with the Yanks in the unpleasantness of the 1770's, our lot put a white (French) cockade atop their black (colonial) one. I may try that one someday.

Apparently this kind of thing is the origin of the tri-color aircraft roundel insignia, too. I just read that factoid recently.

**Robin** · 17th June 07, 02:14 AM

Cockades and rosettes been around for ages in the military...as regimental/unit colours. Same with unit badges.

Clan crest badges...and clan tartans...are relativly modern (19th century). Plant badges are much older and used to be the only way to recognise clans.

Clan badges and plant badges can be used together now...with or without cockade/rosette or tartan backing. Hackels are for the military and pipe bands only I think.

**macwilkin** · 17th June 07, 04:57 AM

Originally Posted by fluter

You can have lots of fun with combinations of colors, too.

When the French allied with the Yanks in the unpleasantness of the 1770's, our lot put a white (French) cockade atop their black (colonial) one. I may try that one someday.

Apparently this kind of thing is the origin of the tri-color aircraft roundel insignia, too. I just read that factoid recently.

Also, if you do not wish to "show allegiance" to the Jacobites or the Government forces, you can always make a cockade in the livery colours of your clan; for example, I wear a cockade on my bonnet in blue and yellow, the livery colours of the Cumming Chiefs, to show my "allegiance" to Clan Cumming.

Gents, I'm going to move this one into heraldry & tartans, since it has some relation to that area. Hope no one minds.

Regards,

Todd

**Cawdorian** · 17th June 07, 05:29 AM

Don,

from another Patrick descendant.

It great to have anothe Lamont here on the forum !

**Don Patrick** · 17th June 07, 07:32 AM

To tell you the truth, the thought had ocurred to me to have a cockade made in the Lamont colors - maybe even out of the tartan. Just didn't know how appropriate that would be.

I saw a Lamont Plant Badge on the Lamont website and am considering wearing it. The way it's discription was worded though, I came away from the site with the impression that it may have been created by the Society.

I'm use to the Army black cockade (such as it is) and wanted to wear something to identify me more with my Scottish ancestry or my clan. I'm used to rules governing the appropriateness of what I wear. Even after becoming a civilian again, I still have trouble with the fact I can decide what to wear each day. Before I'd just reach inside my sock drawer and with little hesitation pull out a pair to put on - they were all green.

It seems the more I learn about about the Clan, the more I want to learn. After years of knowledge of the Lamont clan, I just recently discovered it is pronouced Lim 'it.

Jim - good to meet another Patrick as well. I do like your icon. I have another family line (Gattis) from out of the Rome, GA area. Been that way a few times learning more about the family line. Beautiful country.

**macwilkin** · 17th June 07, 09:11 AM

Don,

A tartan backing behind the badge, instead of a cockade, is also appropriate, especially on a balmoral -- the Scottish Regiments of the British Army wore such a patch behind their badges, and the Royal Regiment of Scotland wears a swatch of Government Sett behind the new "crucified cat" badge. Glengarries tend to look better with the cockade, though, INMHO.

A cockade in livery colours and a plant badge is also very appropriate.

Regards,

Todd