13 oz vs 16 oz

[Marshal Moroni]

Greetings All, I'm back with another question.

I am working on the next kilt, sounds like a common thing around here, and I'm trying to decide between a 13 oz and a 16 oz.

By nature I am rather warmer blooded than most and I live in So. Cal where summers can be toasty.

It appears that the 16 oz or Heavyweights may be better made (if I'm reading the other posts correctly), but I'm concerned about being too hot.

I had one vendor in a pm suggest that one should always go with the heavier material unless the kilt was to be used for hiking or sports.

Well, My kilts will likely all be multiple use, rarely formal kilts.

So what is everyone's opinion? So far I only have SWK's Thrifty and I want more!!! But there are almost too many to decide without some expertise.

Thanks in advance for any and all advice, and thanks for the previous helps,

[ChattanCat]

Marshal,
It really depends on where you want to wear the kilt. I suggest that if you are looking to increase the quantity of kilts, stick with the blended material kilts with a weight of 13 oz or less. The 16 oz, worsted kilt will be expensive and if you don't wear it with jackets, bow ties, sporran, and sgian, it may be a waste of a good investment.

I prefer (this can be read as want), having various kilts to choose from depending on the situation. For instance, playing football - only a very inexpensive, washable kilt will do. For golf... PV or light weight wool. For dinners with friends, light wool or PV. For semi formal, only use semi formal fur sporran, Argyle jacket... Formal: doublet or Prince Charlie...

Good luck and welcome to the kilted!

Wallace

[Kid Cossack]

Marshal Moroni:

Whole great big can of worms to open up here. The SWK you have is acrylic. I've found acrylic to be quite warm. One of the reasons I keep saying good things about USAK is that they use the good PV (from Marton Mills). My USAK eight yard kilts are cooler than my SWK acrylic kilts.

Questions to consider: are you a "tartan freak"? Would you be happy with a solid colored kilt?

Are you a traditionalist in terms of design and construction?

Do you want the "wool feel"?

A SWK is pretty much a traditional style kilt. Utilikilts aren't. The SWK acrylics---to me---feel like wool. My PV kilts DON'T feel like wool to me. I don't have a sixteen ounce wool kilt. My heaviest kilt is wool, but it's the What Price Glory heavyweight (22 ounce) and it holds a pleat well and swishes like nobody's business . . . but living in Houston, I don't get to wear it much, cause heat stroke just ain't my bag, baby!

I don't have a Freedom Kilt (yet!) but have heard nothing but good about Steve's work. For a "trad design" but "modern material" kilt, I'd take a long hard look at ordering from him. (In addition to being a great kiltmaker, he's also a strong supporter of the community, witness the recent Kilt Kamp.) Would a poly-cotton work for you?

Of course there's USAK. I think everyone knows my opinion of Rocky and Kelly, so I won't repeat it here.

Deep down I think every man that wears a kilt ought to have at least one "tank" as defined by Jimmy Carbomb---eight yard (plus or minus), handsewn, worsted wool tartan. I am mightily tempted to try and sweet talk Barb T into doing up my sixteen ounce Leatherneck yardage into a tank, even if I'd get little use out of it here in Houston.

If you want a sixteen ounce tartan but are worried about the heat, consider either a five yard knife pleated kilt, or a box pleated kilt. Kilt makers who offer a five yard knife pleated kilt are legion. Most of those vendors only offer (as standard) a machine sewn kilt. I've got way more machine sewn kilts than hand sewn, and there's nothing wrong with a machine sewn kilt.

To the best of my information and belief, at present only Matt Newsome offers four yard box pleated kilts. A box pleated kilt feels very different than a tank.

Of course, wool kilts aren't exactly wash'n'wear. With a Utilikilt, a SWK (acrylic, not the heavyweights), a USAK PV, you can just toss 'em in the washing machine, and they'll hang out pretty well even without ironing. For me, that's a huge advantage.

I think the issue you actually raised, before I started to ramble on about this, that and the other thing, was as follows: It appears that the 16 oz or Heavyweights may be better made (if I'm reading the other posts correctly), but I'm concerned about being too hot.

I don't think that a 16 oz heavyweight would necessarily be better made. It would all depend on the kilt maker. A shoddy kilt can be made from 16 ounce worsted wool, and a dang sharp kilt can be made from 13 ounce wool----or from poly-cotton or PV. In terms of the quality of the kilt (design and fabrication) I think it matters a lot more who's doing the work than the nature of the material.

I do think that, in looking at worsted wool, the sixteen ounce material will a) swish better, and b) hold a pleat better. I think that would also be true in comparing any other potential material---I think the Marton Mills PV is about 12 ounces, and we were getting all het up about Fraser and Kirkbright getting ready to do a trial run of heavier weight PV.

Hope this helps.

[Panache]

M.M.

In terms of comfort in hot weather I think amount of material in the wool tartan is far more important than the weight of the wool. The front aprons are going to be the same but the difference between a 5 yard knife pleated kilt or a 4 yard box pleated kilt and a "tank" is 7 1/2 to 12 extra feet of wool you will be carrying around your backside in the pleats.

I have a 16 oz. 5 yard wool kilt from Matt Newsome and a 13 oz. 7 1/2 or so yard "tank". The 13 oz."tank" is much hotter that the 16 oz. 5 yard. I imagine a 4 yard box pleat would be just a little bit cooler. Don't get me wrong, I love lots of pleats (which is why I love the SWK Heavyweights). But if keeping cool in the heat is your main concern I would consider a 5 yard knife pleat or a 4 yard box pleat kilt if you want wool.

If you curious as to what I will be wearing to the highland games this summer in the heat, it will be a USA semi-traditional kilt. I don't know if the Poly Viscose material is lighter than acrylic, but it feels a little cooler to me. That is neither good or bad, one way or the other. It's just an observation.

Cheers

Jamie

[Raptor]

I live in Australia, notorious for it's extremes of heat, drought, & all things brutal weather-wise. I have kilts ranging from a 5yd acrylic SWK through 13 & 16oz tanks up to 18oz military tanks, & I can honestly say that I feel no noticeable differnce in comfort level (other than the better hang & swing of the 9 yarders). Heavier generally wears better, retains pleats better, & has the advantage of being warmer if the weather DOES turn nasty!

[sirdaniel1975]

In my opinion:

Wool breaths and is natural. It is very comfortable to me. The only thing that makes me feel warm are kilt hose.

13 oz vs. 16 oz. I don't believe one is really made better than the other. 16 oz (because of weight) will hang better, hold pleats better and is perceived as being made better. 16 oz is referred to as premier kilting weight.

What makes a kilt an investment is: they are garments that tend to stand the test of time and can be past on to your descendants. Kilts made of weights of 13oz or 16oz will look great with formal wear. Many who live in the Southern US tend to purchase 13oz because of the higher temps and humidity.

If you are worried about the warmth of 16 oz go with a 13 oz and purchase a 16 oz in the future for winter time...

You could go with a 16oz box pleat, and will probably not know the difference. The cost is the same as 13 oz in many tartans from the Scottish tartans Museum (Matt Newsome).

I got a box pleat in 16oz weight from Matt last year and am very glad I went with 16oz over 13oz.

[turpin]

I agree with Panache and KC. With wool, it's the length of the cloth more than the weight of it. Most of your heat will come from what is enclosing your waist. The less there, the better off you will be. That being said, Even in LA you will have plenty of opportunity between October and May to wear a 16 oz tank, and every wardrobe deserves one of those, made to measure.

I have two SWK Heavies, one Standard, one UK mocker, one Renegade canvas, two 13 oz 8 yarders and two 16 oz tanks. I have worn them all this summer andfind, in order of comfort, that the UK comes in first for summer wear, followed by the 13 oz and the 16 oz, then the SWK heavies (mainly becasue the pleats aren't cut out and so add bulk to the fell area). The SWK standard is last - Acrylic doesn't breath well and pills too easily. I'm done with it.

[McClef]

Another factor is freedom of air circulation of course. Heavier weights then become less of an issue.

But going from your nick that might not be an option, in which case the above advice seems pretty good.

[Perldog007]

Marshall, I don't have any experience with 13 or 16 oz wool I do have a SWK heavyweight and have worn it recently in 90 degree high humidity eastern shore weather.

I have to agree with KidCossack, the wool (11-12 oz my guess) in that Stillwater Heavyweight is cooler than my Stillwater Acrylics. If you want an
affordable wool and can live with one of Stillwaters, that may be a good bet. If you are getting a tank and thinking about "backup" wool, that may be the thing.

Personally, I am going to get some more Stillwaters and a22 oz WPG b4 I have
one made. You were looking good in your thrifty kilt, best of luck on the next one!

Doug

[Riverkilt]

Don't forget to START with the tartan you want. Some tartans are only available in 13 or 16 oz. Some both. If both, you can make a choice. If just one weight, well there you are.

I like working with my kiltmaker, Kathy Lare, since I just find a tartan I want, she researches and finds out the fabric weights its available in, then I make the choice IF there is a choice to be made.

Its hotter here than LA. I don't think it makes much difference between a 13 and a 16 oz handsewn wool kilt as far as warmth. For me, the big difference is in the swing of the pleats. 16 oz seeming better for me...but I own some 13 oz hand sewn and even an 11 oz hand sewn since that was the only weight that tartan was available in.

Start with your favorite tartan. Then see if there's a choice of weights to make.

Ron