Other Stewarts

[MacWage]

As a Scot,can I confirm that the kilt is rarely seen as "every day"wear,weddings,funerals,highland games and formal dinners would be the "norm".I as am a member of the "older generation"(not old)and from a somewhat traditional background,I find the wearing of many tartans difficult to comprehend.I wear my clan tartan proudly and that is fine for me,and I think many resident Scots of all generations would adhere to that convention.You colonials(no offence intended)have a happy knack of adjusting conventions to suit yourselves and quite right too!I also think that there are some of you colonials(sorry)who get very hot under the collar over what is correct,yes and some Scots too,but on the whole, wear what you are happy with seems pretty sensible to me.

One analogy I have found useful over the years is that of Sports liveries.
I'll use American Football (NFL), as that is something many feel extremely passionate about (though Football/Soccer works equally well).
If one wears green and yellow, one KNOWS they pull for the Green Bay Packers, while teal and orange is for the Miami Dolphins. If one wear the opposing teams colors in a game, one is brave or foolish. Likewise, if someone is wearing green and yellow because "they like the colors," they are likely to be ridiculed or looked at daftly by the sincere fans.
People feel passionate about "their team." One friend, who is a HUGE Buffalo Bills fan one BURNED a pullover shirt after I once kiddingly called his "Dolphins shirt" because it was orange with teal trim.
One can wear ANY team's jersey and gear they like, but it best to have a REASON to pull for them.

(Not the best telling, but gets the point across-> I did it better in the "Allowed Tartans" thread, page one.)

Each tartan has a "meaning" and one should take that meaning into consideration when choosing tartans. In some cases, one may pick because it is SUCH a great deal. In most, one has a STRONG tie to what the tartan symbolizes, usually blood ties.

Of my present tartans, 3 are blood ties: Gordon (by Todds), MacNeil (by Neels), and Wallace. 2 are geographic: Carolina and USA Bicentennial. One is through internet forum: X Marks. 3 are "general:" Caledonia (one of my FAVORITE tartans), Warrior (PV-> not yet made), and Black Watch (in honor of distant Grant and Campbell ties, as well as in memory of ancestors who fought for the government).
There are a dozen more I have either familial or geographic ties (and one through my Miata/MX-5 club membership) which are on a "wish list."

So, I have numerous tartans, but ties to ALL of them.

Colonial (yes, I had ancestors here who WERE colonists-> religious exiles from Scotland),

[Jock Scot]

Hi MacWage,please do not be offended with what I have written.All I`was trying to point out was a differance between most(?)wearers of the kilt in Scotland and perhaps(?) wearers of the kilt in the rest of the world.You are obviously proud of your roots and in your way, you are happy to demonstrate your herritage by connecting those roots to several tartans.I am delighted for you.On the other hand ,I ,in my humble experiance here in Scotland ,tells me that many,certainly not all,Scots are quite happy with one tartan."Vive la differance". Can I buy you a wee dram ,if ever you are over here?

[MacWage]

Hi MacWage, please do not be offended with what I have written.All I`was trying to point out was a difference between most(?)wearers of the kilt in Scotland and perhaps(?) wearers of the kilt in the rest of the world.You are obviously proud of your roots and in your way, you are happy to demonstrate your heritage by connecting those roots to several tartans.I am delighted for you.On the other hand ,I ,in my humble experience here in Scotland ,tells me that many,certainly not all,Scots are quite happy with one tartan. "Vive la differance". Can I buy you a wee dram ,if ever you are over here?

I was trying to agree. My own surname is of mysterious origin, though the Y-chromosome tests say "Scottish" (whatever that means, several cousins have had the test). So, I don't have "one" family tartan for my surname. So, I have to link through other lines (of varying distance). I also make my own kilts, so I am getting a small collection going. Yet, all of mine are either blood related or "district" tartans (except "Warrior").
The most common REASON people pick a tartan is family ties. Otherwise, it is district based.

I have NO reason to counter a Scot on Scottish kilt-wearing habits (for it is STUPID and ARROGANT to do so).

Also, IF I had BOUGHT a kilt, rather than made them, and had a certain surname to tie to A tartan, I would have probably had but one tartan kilt. So, there is NO reason for more than one, unless one just WANTS them.

The analogy was intended as illustrative of HOW (TODAY) tartan means SOMETHING, besides "pretty colors" and when one wears that tartan, they associate themselves with that meaning. The reason for selecting a tartan and wearing THAT one may be personal (USUALLY BLOOD-TIES). I thought and intended it as agreement with your post (why I quoted without rebuttal).

I have just FINALLY convinced my family that kilts (mine are 16 oz worsted tartan box-pleats) are FORMAL ENOUGH to wear to a wedding (rather ODD and the ONLY one I know that has THAT problem).

When I make it back to Scotland (was there in August 2000), I'd LOVE to take you up on that dram!!
When I get up for that trip (and assuming both are still on here), I'll PM you and MAKE SURE it is on my plans.

[Jock Scot]

OOOPS!Nearly had a blue on blue situation there.Still no harm done.It will be my pleasure to buy Mr.MacWage a wee dram when ,as he surely will,visits this part of the world.

[Phil]

As a Scot,can I confirm that the kilt is rarely seen as "every day"wear,weddings,funerals,highland games and formal dinners would be the "norm".I as am a member of the "older generation"(not old)and from a somewhat traditional background,I find the wearing of many tartans difficult to comprehend.I wear my clan tartan proudly and that is fine for me,and I think many resident Scots of all generations would adhere to that convention.You colonials(no offence intended)have a happy knack of adjusting conventions to suit yourselves and quite right too!I also think that there are some of you colonials(sorry)who get very hot under the collar over what is correct,yes and some Scots too,but on the whole, wear what you are happy with seems pretty sensible to me.

Steady on Jock, unless you are a Daily Telegraph reader** that is, everybody else knows by now that we don't have any colonies any more. What you say about Scots is right, we only have one kilt (if we own one at all) and that might even have been a hand-me-down. If we don't we hire one for the sort of dress-up occasions you describe and then any tartan will do as the hire shops only stock a few popular ones. You can always tell hired ones, they are either Dress Gordon or MacKenzie with the odd Red Stewart thrown in. Remember that this is a kilt-lovers' site and like any other hobby it can become a bit of an obsession and a way of spending your cash on all the latest stuff. What's wrong with that and there's certainly nothing wrong with keeping our national dress alive and thriving. Nothing stays the same. I have seen the dress norms change over the years some good some bad but I still dress the way I like and feel comfortable. Probably a bit old-fashioned now but I like it and I wouldn't knock anyone else who has their own views no matter how ridiculous I thought they look.

**My history teacher told me many years ago you can distinguish readers of the Daily Express newspaper from those of the Daily Telegraph because while Express readers wished Britain still had an empire, Telegraph readers actually believed it still had one. Both staunch right-wing newspapers by the way.

[Jock Scot]

Hi Phil,I hope that I have never given the impression that I am the judge of what and how people wear the kilt.Each to their own is my motto.Of course we no longer have colonies,but I was trying to come up with a collective noun for all the members that do not come from Scotland and I hoped that the Australians,New Zealanders,Canadians,Americans and all the other countries that are represented here would forgive me for the collective description.How about Kolonials?

[Mr. MacDougall]

Jock, you mean the products of the Scottish diaspora? How about diasporans? Oh, wait... Dictionary.com tells me the name for such folks is "the Scottish diaspora."

[Phil]

Hi Phil,I hope that I have never given the impression that I am the judge of what and how people wear the kilt.Each to their own is my motto.Of course we no longer have colonies,but I was trying to come up with a collective noun for all the members that do not come from Scotland and I hoped that the Australians,New Zealanders,Canadians,Americans and all the other countries that are represented here would forgive me for the collective description.How about Kolonials?

No I don't think for a moment that you were judgemental about different ideas of kilt-wearing and I apologise for giving that impression. Calling people "colonials", however, is too like the English supercilious penchant for calling we Scots "provincials" or "jocks" or "north britons" in the way they have of putting down so many nations they regard as somehow inferior (dagoes, froggies etc.). I can't think of a single epithet uttered in return except that Scottish favourite so frequently heard "English b******s". I have been in the company of otherwise civilised, middle class English people whom you would really expect better of, and listened to them saying the most offensive and xenophobic remarks about Welsh people and just wondered what they would say about us Scots if we weren't there. We are a nation as are all these others and our state of colonialism ended at Bannockburn, the present association with England being nominally a union of equals, just that the English haven't quite taken that one on board yet. There that's my rant over for another day.

[Jock Scot]

A rant a day keeps the doctor away?

[Perldog007]

I am new to the kilt, and think it would be grand to have nice wool kilts in Macbeth or Macdonald... But I work in a warehouse. I wear a kilt everyday because I like it, and it is so much easier on my battered right leg than pants.

Being descended from Macbeths' and Drummonds' with some Irish, Welsh, and even British ancestors I would like to have a wardrobe of "proper" tartans. Really.

But my purse reflects that of a man that lives by the sweat of his brow. Until my kilt fund grows for a while I wear whatever I can get my hands on, like our ancestors did back in the day.

So for me it's Macleod Hunting, Black Stewart, Irish National, Leatherneck, Black Watch, Wallace, and saffron and anything else I can get reasonable to wear in my world. Contemporary kilts I have made, and others.

I look forward to the day when I can afford a handmade family tartan. Or maybe even a machine sewn one. For right now, need to cover my so I don't get arrested whilst trying to earn and save enough for my proper kilt.