Kilt Maker Disappointment

[James MacMillan]

Boy, do I envy you gents who live in Scotland, or at least close to a kilt maker. I don’t. I live in Southern California, just North of San Diego. There aren’t any kilt makers in my area, so when I heard of one, (about an hour’s drive away) I thought that I would splurge and get another tank made to my exact measurements. I made an appointment, found her house, and went over to talk to her.

Wow, did I have a very disappointing experience! I should mention, I guess, that I have been wearing kilts for about 18 years. I have several kilts (12 I think). When I was on active duty, there was seldom opportunity to be kilted. But I still wore kilts in many countries, and locations. When I got out of the Marine Corps, I did three things: I grew a full beard, I got my left ear pierced, and I started to wear kilts as my daily attire. Well four things, actually – I got fat!

I wear kilts as normal day-to-day clothing. I read many, many books on tartans, kilts, and Scottish things, in general. I am not some hobbyist re-enactor, or person renting a kilt to go to a wedding. I wear kilts! I know what I want.

What I wanted from this lady, was a custom made kilt to my specifications, pleated to my desires, and usable as an everyday piece of clothing.

I wanted a “traditional” kilt, with the tartan of my choice. I did, however, want a few modifications.

The things I wanted, didn’t seem, and don’t seem excessive to me. I wanted the left pleat, (the pleat that forms the left side of the apron) to be much deeper than I have normally seen. I wanted this pleat to be at least 12”. I think it hangs better. I wanted Velcro to be used for ease of wear. I see no real reason, in the modern kilt, other than appearance, for the right, top buckle. The belt covers it, anyway. And - I always wear a belt. I wanted this buckle to be replaced with Velcro. I had a couple of other ideas, but we never got to them.

This lady wouldn’t even listen to my desires. She stated that she only makes “regulation” kilts. We now have regulations about kilts? I don’t think so! We do have customs, traditions, and things that tend to look good. No Regulations!

So, when I realized that this lady wasn’t willing to be flexible and bend to the desires of her prospective customer, I said that I was sorry to have wasted her time, and left. –Not a happy camper.

On the drive over, I was thinking of ways to pleat, which colors would look good in which tartan. I was getting excited about being measured, and then going back for a fitting. Little did she know, that I had a check in my pocket, and would have ordered two kilts? I was thinking of one full tank, and one box pleated.

On the drive back, I came to the conclusion, that this lady, has only one pattern for making a kilt – maybe purchased from the McCall pattern book. She sure wasn’t what I expected from a kilt maker!

Now, if I want another kilt custom made, I will have to do it by mail, just like always.

--Heavy sigh!!!--

[Mr. MacDougall]

That is disapointing, I agree.

Isn't the Celtic Craft Center in SoCal?

[ChromeScholar]

San Francisco, or Palm Springs, I think.

[Kid Cossack]

Semper fi, James!

I prefer to look at it this way: if she wasn't comfortable making the kilt the way YOU want it to be, I wouldn't be comfortable having her make the kilt.

I've asked a couple of the kilt makers here to alter their specs, and it was on things that they weren't comfortable doing. (I come up with some goofy ideas---although I like your ideas, particularly the very deep left-side pleat.)

It can be frustrating, at times, but I always like to deal with a craftsman who understands exactly what I'm talking about, and who is game to do something different.

Ever forward!

[James MacMillan]

I just googled them - Palm Springs - Three hours drive for me, but I may drive over before I go to the mails again...... Not that I am saying that I have bad luck with mail-order, I was just up for the up-close and personal attention, and also wanted to talk to another kilt person.......

[McMurdo]

You know there are talented kiltmakers out there that are rigid about what is and is not a kilt. I am sure that if I were to go into the tartan shop that made my Isle of Skye and asked them to make it with Velcro, and told them how to pleat it, I am sure they would have thrown me out on my ear.

There are kiltmakers out there that will accommodate, even welcome your input. However that does not mean that they have too.

If you really wanted a traditional kilt, in the tartan of your choice, then why would you want those modifications? To my way of thinking Velcro and Traditional kilt just do not even belong in the same sentence.

[James MacMillan]

If you really wanted a traditional kilt, in the tartan of your choice, then why would you want those modifications? To my way of thinking Velcro and Traditional kilt just do not even belong in the same sentence.

If the buckle is replaced with velcro, and the velcro is hidden under the belt (just like the buckle is hidden under the belt) how does that make it not right?

So to your mind, ease of wear is out? Not trying to start a flame here. But if that kind of thinking was still the way to go, we would not be wearing anything but no socks and the great kilt...... Come-on. Things evolve.

[McMurdo]

If the buckle is replaced with velcro, and the velcro is hidden under the belt (just like the buckle is hidden under the belt) how does that make it not right?

So to your mind, ease of wear is out? Not trying to start a flame here. But if that kind of thinking was still the way to go, we would not be wearing anything but no socks and the great kilt...... Come-on. Things evolve.

Yes things evolve all I was saying was that there are those out there that will not bend to your will about what a kilt should be. My point was and still is that you had said you wanted a Traditional Kilt well Velcro is Not I repeat Not traditional, you just can not haver it both ways.

You want to think differently don't go to a traditional kilt maker and ask them to make you a contemporary kilt, go to one of the fine Contemporary kilt makers out there. You may have to do it online but I suppose that is the price you have to pay.

[Ozman1944]

I'm with James re Velcro. That top right buckle is under the belt anyway. Personally, I'd rather velcro the whole thing, like SWK Thrifty. Save trying to thread the left strap, fasten it, then twist the whole top so I can get to the right one, answer the phone, get the door etc. etc.; I always wear a belt, so the buckles & straps are not really instrumental in holding anything up, especially for a knockaround kilt.

I do tend to use straps & buckles etc. for more formal wear, I add a fly plaid anyway.

[way2fractious]

This lady wouldn’t even listen to my desires. She stated that she only makes “regulation” kilts.

...this lady has only one pattern for making a kilt...

Now, if I want another kilt custom made, I will have to do it by mail, just like always.

Somehow, I doubt she has a pattern for her kilts. She more likely took her training in traditional kiltmaking from someone and has a customer base consisting of pipe bands, wedding parties, and Burns Night celebrants, among others. Don't think badly of her.

Some of us on this board got into kiltmaking just playing around with different fabrics, and a few moved on to tartans and traditional kiltmaking methods as our confidence and interest grew. There have been many discussions about really deep, deep pleats.

And Velcro?... oh, my! There are very strong opinions on both sides of that argument. As an (ocassional) maker of all variety of kilts, I think hook-and-loop fasteners have their place. Most of my camo kilts have small patches of hook-and-loop to aid in donning the kilt until the plastic side-snap buckle can close the webbing belt. As a downside on wool, I see how the hook half could really tear up the opposing fabric.

What your maker of "regulation" kilts may not realize is that older military kilts very often had no strap on the underapron, and therefore no buttonhole and buckle on the left side. Rough wool generated plenty of "tooth" (gripping power) under pressure from the belt. Heck, one time I even wore a not-quite-completed kilt made of 16 oz material that had no straps and buckles yet; it stayed on just fine with only the belt - just a little tricky to don.

What that means, perhaps, is that there is a kiltmaker or two that would be happy to make you a kilt that is traditionally constructed, in its basics, but modified according to your desires. Keep hunting. Ask around of various pipe bands who they utilize as kiltmakers. And post your desires over in the kiltmaker sub-forum or DIY sub-forum. If you can find such a kiltmaker locally, you'll be set; if not, post any travel plans you have and meet up with one of the fine kiltmakers on this forum.

w2f