Kilt Maker Disappointment

[Alan H]

I have a solution for you. It's time-consuming, but it's very very satisfying, and if you're careful, you can get *exactly* the kilt you want in every single detail.

make it yourself.

Buy Barb and Elsie's book, buy the material, buy the velcro, and settle down for many hours of careful labour, BUT...it's not so bad. Try it!

[Tattoo Bradley]

I by no means would want velcro on a "traditional" wool kilt. But, the request certainly doesn't seem like such a big deal to me. "No sir, I don't make kilts that way." "Oh, well thanks anyway." And that's the end of it.

[Abax]

I wonder if what you're describing is related to a cultural difference.

It's a little different in the eastern U. S., but in my city, the oldest building is about 60 years old. There is no long history of tradition here. But I suspect that kilt makers in the U. S. are apt to be influenced by the traditions passed on by their teachers or by the culture from which kilts originate. Lots of old buildings and traditions over there.

In the United States, we are used to asking and expecting vendors to do things our way. Perhaps somebody from the U. K. can say if that same expectation exists over there (in general) or when dealing with kilt makers.

Abax

[Archangel]

FWIW, comparing the velcro fastening of my sportkilt to my traditional buckles: the velcro is usually easier but on my fat days (I'm working back down) it can take a couple of goes before the two sides are aligned; the strap is done. The velcro is stiffer and doesn't give when I lean into it: the traditional does.

My understanding is that the new Canadian Armed Forces kilts are velcro (on size fits all = cheaper) and the soldiers are not so keen on them.

I understand that you just wanted one section made velcro, again comparing to other clothes I have (Eddie Bauer wool sweater with velcro) the wool bits/pills/etc block up the velcro and it's a pain to clean. And it no longer holds.

You're right though, if you're paying, it's your choice. Her art, her choice. In a business, she should have explained why those might not be good ideas from either an "engineering" standpoint or her aesthetic sense. Then, while you may still be disappointed, you would not be holding it against her.

Better luck next time.

[CameronTaylor]

James, my only suggestion is (for tonight anyway) contact Steve at Freedom Kilts or any of the fine kiltmaker members here. I'm sure you'll find them accomdating and you'll be satified with your next kilt.
I've made my own as Alan H suggests, live 40 minutes from Sportkilt, and The Tartan Patch last time I checked is about 14 miles away(they're pricey but my Taylor tank is solid as Sears).
Tartan Patch is the only one that had me come in for measuring and such, Steve's guidelines at FK that are easy to follow and the fit is great - he's many miles north and across one international border (sort-of) away.
Good luck with your hunt.

CT - I think my point was they don't have to be close by but I may have missed it ...

[Phil]

Boy, do I envy you gents who live in Scotland

Take it from someone who lives in Scotland, Kiltmakers here by and large are just the same. There is only one way to make a kilt, their way, and take it or leave it. I suppose it is traditional but I like the sound of velcro instead of buckles, it must be more comfortable and flexible. Good luck anyway.

[cessna152towser]

I fully understand your disappointment, James, but I have to agree with Phil, that every kilt maker likes to make kilts to his or her own specification. Here in Scotland, I have bought traditional kilts from The Kilt Shop in Galashiels and from Tyne Tartans in Hawick. Each uses a different kiltmaker and I now know what to expect - a kilt from Galashiels will come with only one buckle on each side and if I want a kilt with a third buckle I should order from the Hawick shop.

[Jerry]

My solution, if you want a kilt which is custom made for you, with velcro? Order one of Rocky's casual kilts from USA Kilts. They are polyvis instead of wool, but polyvis is very comfortable in the summer and it requires very little care. And, Rocky and Kelly are very willing to work with you on changes you might want. If there is some reason your wishes can non be accommodated, they will take the time to explain why they won't work instead of just saying, "I won't do that."

[Barb T]

Hmmm, I hope I can explain myself clearly on this. I make trad kilts and only trad kilts at this point - mostly knife-pleated but occasional box pleated kilts. It's what I like to make and what I'm good at. If someone asks me to make a different kind of kilt (a full-size 5 yard knife pleat or a "casual" kilt), I'm likely to say no, but not because I don't think those are appropriate garments. It's just that I don't make them. I prefer a full-yardage trad kilt, and that's what I make. I would hope that someone wouldn't think that I was dumping on other kinds of kilts if I said to a potential customer that he would have to find someone else to make something other than a trad kilt. I also try to say it nicely without making the customer feel like he wants something inferior, which may be the problem here.

The issue of whether I would make a kilt with a Velcro closure is more than just a question of what the customer wants. Here's what would be going through my mind. On the one hand, a customer is entitled to have a garment that is what he wants. On the other hand, would I put my maker's label in a kilt with a Velcro closure? Interesting question. I'm well known for making really high quality traditional kilts. If someone saw the kilt with Velcro closures with my label in it, what would the reaction be on the part of other potential customers? Would they say, great! She's really flexible! Or would they say, I'd never want _her_ to make a kilt for me if she puts Velcro in it! What was she _thinking_?

I honestly don't know where I would come down on this if someone were to ask me. Hasn't happened before.

On another note - in terms of damage to the kilt over time. The "hook" side of the Velcro will actually stick to the tartan and pull a fuzz up on the surface of the fabric. I'd worry that someone would have to be awfully careful about how the kilt was folded or laid down so that the hook side of the Velcro didn't damage the face of the kilt. If it's an inexpensive kilt, maybe this isn't a concern. But I would think it would be for a kilt costing $500-600.

Barb

[Howard Clark]

Ok, I am not a professional kilt maker, but I am a professional bladesmith. I make one style of stuff (Japanes style swords) at this point for money, period. Nothing else. I do not care what you want if it is outside that box. I will happily reccomend others more accomodating, but I am rigidly inflexible about what I make and how I do it. It is not up to the customer to tell me how to do what I do. I just simply say no.

Which is what said kilt maker at the strat of this thread did. Least amount of trouble for everyone, trust me.

If she "had" taken the order, and then become unhappy with the way it was going during the project, this can lead to a very unhappy cascade of events. I have seen it happen to crafts people of all stripe when they do not know how to say no.

A minor disspointment about a bit of wasted time is better than a huge wound over money and unhappy makers and customers of hand made goods. Life is too short for things like this.

Be glad she said no.

I am an amateur kilt maker, and just "how" amateur became abundantly clear when I got my kilt from Matt Newsome. I will never be that good. I do not have time to become that good at that skill, and it is quite a skill I must say. Other than "work kilts" to trash in the shop I am done fooling with it and buying from the pro's.

I am in hopes of being able to get one from Barb too at some point. I am hopelessly hooked at this point.

But back to the point. Being told no, is the least amount of trouble this kind of thing can be if the crafts person you wish to employ is not happy making the project you propose.

Be happy, spend your money somewhere else. And smile, it's good for your face.