Kilt Maker Disappointment

[James MacMillan]

I have to agree with Barb on this point of VERY deep under apron pleats.
On my kilts the deep and reverse pleats are deeper than normal but that is due to the fabric I work with. Poly/Cotton does not drape as well as Wool so I make my deep pleats DEEP. With Wool however, that drape very can cause problems.

I had the ability to experiment. I would build a kilt, try it on, and squat. If the apron did not drop between my legs I would cut it off and add a deeper pleat.
Then I would stand back up and see if the added depth caused the apron to hang funny when standing and walking. It was only these experiments (8-10 tries) that allowed me to come up with what works for my fabrics.

A Traditionally Styled and competently made kilt has worked fine for many men over many years. Most kiltmakers I know have looked at their work in action and tweeked their design till it works for them.

Yes, the kilt is still evolving. We, as kiltmakers, are still experimenting and trying to make our product better.

I hope that the kiltmaker you speak of was at least polite when saying they could not handle your request. I too have told potential customers that I was not willing to make what they are asking for. For example, I will not make a reverse Kingussie pleated kilt with a 7" apron.

I now realize that I should have hidden a tape recorder in my sporran.

Let me give more info:

I dressed for the meeting in my 2nd best handmade kilt. MacMillan Tartan, about 8 years old, mid weight wool, pleated to stripe, with the gold vertical stripe being visible on each pleat. I had on mid-weight dark green hose, matching tartan flashes, sandals, and a plain dark green golf shirt. Wide black belt, Stillwater USMC buckle and Stillwater nylon sporran. I think I wore everything well - but I am biased.

The initial meeting started off OK, she introduced me to her dog, I made friends, and scratched it's ears. She invited me into her kitchen, where there stood several sample books of tartan - I never got to look inside her books.

We started to talk about kilts. I told her that I wear kilts regularly and was looking for a new one. I at one point asked if she could make box pleats, to which she responded "What do you want that for? Are you in a re-enactment group?" I again, informed her that I wear kilts as clothing, not as a costume. I started to get pissed (hindsight) I then asked if she could make a deeper pleat as discussed previously.... see other posts. The velcro came up only at the end.

After giving this much thought, I now think that she doesn't, in fact, make kilts, but takes orders that she then sends away. Maybe this is being harsh, but I saw no samples, kilts in progress, or nuthin'.... That would explain her being very un-yielding to a customers desires.

[James MacMillan]

For a person your size, it might work. But whether the first pleat opens up (kicks forward) when you are standing still has little to do with how deep the first pleat is and everything to do with how your thighs are shaped and how the kiltmaker actually constructed the first pleat.

Barb

Sure, I understand that, and I have very large thighs. Here, we go back to my humble experience in wearing my kilts. And I am talking about the left side.
When the apron pleat is no larger than the pleats across the back, it tends, (on me again!) to open up the other pleats as I move.

On the kilts that have a deeper apron pleat, this doesn't seem to be a problem. I posted pictures of me in some of my kilts. What do you think?

[James MacMillan]

I have written and trashed three replys as this thread has moved along. As usual - others have been able to make my point better than I ever could. I just want to throw in a quick THANK YOU to all our highly talented kiltmakers for their contributions to this thread. I think they have revealed some important truths about kilt making here.

For this kilt wearer, each kilt I have added to my humble kollection comes with some newly learned truths about kilts. I have, in the past, had some pretty "exciting" ideas about how each kilt could be constructed or pleated. It has been up to our skilled kilt makers to gently explain why my ideas can't or won't work. So again - a big THANKS to all those who help us understand kiltmaking just a bit better.

I also second and third my thanks to the different posts. Yes I learn things. I'm old, not dead!

That is one of the good things about X-Marks, the different viewpoints and the exchange of ideas. I wish I had had the oportunity to read all the posts on this board before I bought my first kilt. Sadly some of my kilts pre-date the internet, so I only had books and other kilters to form my opinions.

[Barb T]

When the apron pleat is no larger than the pleats across the back, it tends, (on me again!) to open up the other pleats as I move.

I misunderstood what you meant. I thought you were talking about the problem of the apron edge flipping forward when you're standing still.

And any good kiltmaker should make the apron pleat fairly deep (although whether it is, in fact, noticeably deeper than the others depends entirely on the size of the sett). But, I would argue that just because 5" is good doesn't mean that 12" is better, though.

Where did you post the pics?

Barb

[McMurdo]

Where did you post the pics?

Barb

Here are the pics posted a wee while ago

http://www.xmarksthescot.com/forum/s...ad.php?t=29564

[James MacMillan]

I misunderstood what you meant. I thought you were talking about the problem of the apron edge flipping forward when you're standing still.

And any good kiltmaker should make the apron pleat fairly deep (although whether it is, in fact, noticeably deeper than the others depends entirely on the size of the sett). But, I would argue that just because 5" is good doesn't mean that 12" is better, though.

Where did you post the pics?

Barb

In the Newbie section under "Some flix from a newly joined kilter"

I think if you click on my name/handle you get an option of looking at all of the posts.... ?

[James MacMillan]

X-Marks rules - with open conversation like this, I could kill hours and hours, just poking the keyboard.

Thanks for being here - from a confirmed curmudgeon (spelling?) retired Marine Master Gunnery Sergeant and died in the wool kilter.

[McMurdo]

curmudgeon is indeed spelled correctly, with the Firefox browser there is this neat spell check program that works great.

http://www.mozilla.com/en-US/firefox/

[James MacMillan]

curmudgeon is indeed spelled correctly, with the Firefox browser there is this neat spell check program that works great.

http://www.mozilla.com/en-US/firefox/

Duh - I use firefox, and never realized that... thanks.

I guess I should learn how to spell the word, 'cause I is one...

[Barb T]

It's hard to tell from the pics that you posted, because the left apron edge doesn't show in most of them.

B