Snub'd by Phila St Andrews Society

[RockyR]

Don't worry Brian... even I couldn't get in WITH several members reccomending me (I'm not Scottish enough). There ARE several members of the Philly St. Andrews who are very nice guys... but I know the "barrier to entry" is a bit steep for people on the outside looking in.

We'll start our OWN Scottish Society out here in the burbs. We'll go to bars and wear kilts and drink to recruit members. We'll call them "Kilt Nights" and we'll do it once a month or so. Heck, we can even celebrate Robbie Burns day with others in kilts!

Oh wait... we already do all that. ;)

[Graham]

Wow, that's amazing, in Australia St.Andrews, Caledonian Societies etc. are all suffering from lack of members and so new members are really welcomed.
For most clubs, more members means more support and more money.

Maybe they are swamped with members and getting fussy?

[ardchoille]

Not that this matters much to me in hindsight – but looked up the local St Andrew’s Society (Philadelphia St Andrew’s Society – on of the oldest in the USA) to find out how one goes about getting information on membership. The Web page had a contact link for further information. I sent a nice cordial email explaining my Scottish heritage and my interest in learning more about the Philadelphia St Andrew’s Society, and perhaps attending some events and even joining at some point.

A few days later I received a polite, but curt response that basically said, “WE will call you if we notice you and WE feel you can contribute to the membership of the society, we do not accept unsolicited membership applications. Membership is by invite only - Have a nice day.”

I have to admit I was a little surprised by the curt reply. I assume that they are a private organization and have their own membership requirements as a private club, and if they are that snobby, then I really don’t think I would fit in anyway. So much for that famous Highland hospitality!

Oh well – no skin off my back. Just wanted to rant.

Wow! This group sounds like it wouldn't be beneficial to you anyway. Good thing you found out early. As cavscout so perfectly put it, "Water off a duck's back..".

[Barclay]

You're in good company, Mr. MacKay...according to their website, they also snubbed Benjamin Franklin in 1762.

[cessna152towser]

It certainly sounds like you aren't missing out on anything that you, or for that matter, any of us, would want to be part of. It appears to be a "St. Andrew's society" in name only. Nothing to stop the Philly kilties starting a proper St. Andrew's society, but then they already have an informal one which has its own x-markers kilt meets.

[auld argonian]

You're in good company, Mr. MacKay...according to their website, they also snubbed Benjamin Franklin in 1762.

...who would snub Dr. Franklin?

Best

AA

[Mike1]

Wow, it's like deja vu, all over again. It feels like I just closed one of these threads a few days back.

Oh, yeah, that's right. I did just close one of these threads a few days back.

Before we all get our backs up in the air, I want to point out something BMackay said in the original post -

I assume that they are a private organization and have their own membership requirements as a private club, and if they are that snobby, then I really don’t think I would fit in anyway.

It would seem that he has come to an understanding about this organization and their membership policies, so let's not beat a dead horse here, OK?

Thank you!

[Kid Cossack]

Private organizations, and private clubs.

First off, Mike1, I hope this isn't transgressive.

It breaks my heart to see clubs excluding people, but as a believer in autonomy, "that's their right." I hang out with some odd people, some of them wouldn't get along with others I also hang out with. I believe in the rights of free association, very strongly. I will choose the people whose company I enjoy---and I cannot raise too much fuss if other people exercise the same rights.

In the very same way that I reject the authority of "society at large" to dictate how I dress, I must similarly respect the authority of any society to reject my company. It can be foolish, it can be misguided (and certainly, anyone who rejects ME must be foolish or misguided, right?), but it is ultimately the decision of the people in that society/community/organization.

If I may transgress (and I beg indulgence from the moderators!) it is something like the dating service that rejects homosexuals. HOW DARE THEY! (some say). Freely and equitably, says I. On various political weblogs, I've seen comment about one of these dating sites. One approach has been to say "they can't do that! They must admit/accept/validate ME!" Frequently this leads to appeals to authority, to FORCE the malefactors to reform their behavior. A more appropriate approach (to my mind) is to open a competing site, to serve an underserved community.

I write this post with some trepidation, as I am aware of how close to the wind I am sailing. This is Highland Tide's site, and we have to play by his rules if we want to play in his sandbox. (I hope that doesn't sound resentful, or arrogant, or displeased.)

Sometimes it's hard to remember that our particular passion is just one of many, many particular passions floating around out there. If there's an exclusive club that doesn't think I, or you, or whoever, deserves membership, for whatever reason---well, so be it. I suppose that there are sarong fans out there who might be upset that Xmarksthescot is dedicated to kilts, and not MUGs in general.

If the St Andrews Society of Philadelphia chooses to pursue an exclusionist policy, well, that is simply a reason to seek out, or found, new societies that are more in tune with our preferences.

And heck, I'd be proud to be associated with a "Scottish Society of Philadelphia" that was ramrodded by that crazy Rocky Roeger! What I'm saying, lads, is that we can look at anything as a problem or an opportunity. If "they" are doing it wrong, let's us "do it right."

And also, let's bear in mind that there might be someone out there who thinks, "How dare those X-marks fellows exclude the sarong!" Well, thinks I, them's the rules we play by---and my participation at X-marks, and my playing by the rules at X-marks, in no way prohibits me from being a member of, say, "Smarksthesarong.com".

Mods, if this is a transgression, please accept that it was meant with the best of intentions. Associational rights can be considered politics, and I know political discussions are frowned upon. We're here to talk about kilts, and to a lesser degree Scottish history and culture. Our choice to talk about kilts, and not sarongs, or skirts, or the price of tea in China, is as valid as any private organization's choice of focus. Personally, I love having X-marks here, and the limitations on discussion of certain topics is a small price to pay for the benefits I glean.

The five second version? "Hey, man, they've got their thing."

[ChromeScholar]

A more appropriate approach (to my mind) is to open a competing site, to serve an underserved community.

I believe I said this very thing the last time this subject came up. I was also alluding to this above. What must an organization do to call themselves a "St. Andrews Society?" I'm still looking for an answer. Whatever the answer is, if one group refuses to let you in their sandbox, you can always build your own sandbox. Just find out what the regulations on sandboxes are before you start building.

[majdan]

What I find odd here is that there seems to be a wide defference in the charters of the StAS of Phil and my own NW StAS. I guess that there is no national body that regulates this. That would of course be in the grand Scottish tradition of not letting anyone tell you what to do.