Tartan complaint

[ardchoille]

I took this from your link and believe that it answers your questions as to why these tartans can be called "MacGregor Tartans."

Well, that's true, that passage is there. However, I would think that anyone creating anything and planning to put a clan name on it would check with the authority of that clan, as the first step, in order to obtain permission. That's what I would do anyway. I just see it as a sign of respect. But, then again, "respect" is something many do not have in abundance.

Note to cajunscot: Sorry about posting in the wrong section, I'll try to avoid that in the future.

[Monkey@Arms]

Well, that's true, that passage is there. However, I would think that anyone creating anything and planning to put a clan name on it would check with the authority of that clan, as the first step, in order to obtain permission. That's what I would do anyway. I just see it as a sign of respect. But, then again, "respect" is something many do not have in abundance.

Note to cajunscot: Sorry about posting in the wrong section, I'll try to avoid that in the future.

There might be a "chicken and egg" problem with your argument. You assume that the clan actually had a designated tartan before the weavers started naming various patterns "MacGregor." I know nothing of the MacGregors so that could be true, but for many clans the reality is just the opposite. There was no designated tartan, and the chiefs asked the weaving houses which tartan was theirs, as opposed to giving them "permission."

This article by Matt explains it better than I can. "The sources of tartan."

Best regards,

Jake

[ardchoille]

There might be a "chicken and egg" problem with your argument. You assume that the clan actually had a designated tartan before the weavers started naming various patterns "MacGregor." I know nothing of the MacGregors so that could be true, but for many clans the reality is just the opposite. There was no designated tartan, and the chiefs asked the weaving houses which tartan was theirs, as opposed to giving them "permission."

This article by Matt explains it better than I can.
"A tartan by any other name."

Best regards,

Jake

That explains quite a bit. Thank you for that link
It seems my way of thinking about this was in error.

[gilmore]

As I recall, one of the oldest tartans is one of the MacGregor's, the simple red and black Rob Roy tartan.

[ccga3359]

Although I cannot follow the clan system I would like to observe that the weather tartan is made to look like it's been in a bog for a hundred years. It might be on the verge of a fashion tartan in that the hues might not be exact of the official tartan, but aren't the thread counts and colours the same? For what it's worth I like the weathered Bucannan tartan to the full on Modern Bucannan. Were I of this clan I would be more apt to wear the weathered and be most proud to do so.

[ardchoille]

As I recall, one of the oldest tartans is one of the MacGregor's, the simple red and black Rob Roy tartan.

The tartan you are referring to is the MacGregor red and black (aka Rob Roy) tartan. Here's a bit of history about this tartan from Sir Malcolm MacGregor, Chief of Clan Gregor:

The Red and Black MacGregor Tartan

This tartan existed long before individual tartans became associated to particular clans Perhaps because it is one of the easiest setts to weave. There are those who question MacGregors' claim to this tartan as there are portraits of monarchs and other Highlanders wearing this sett. It is also claimed that it is not known what MacGregors would have worn during proscriptions and that they would not have worn their clan tartan so proudly. Two points here. First, I would argue strongly that due to proscription, the clan adopted it in 1603 because at that time it was not regarded as a MacGregor Tartan. It is my belief that by the end of the 18th century, nearly 200 years later, it came to be regarded as such. It is a fact that my family have worn this particular tartan since the late 18th century and regarded it as MacGregor tartan. My great. great. great, great grandfather would have worn it for good traditional reasons (see below), not on a whim. The tartan is included in the Highland Society of London's collection of 1816, which lends credence to this belief.

Secondly, if the MacGregors themselves survived the proscriptions - is it so surprising that the tartan survived? Laws passed in Edinburgh and London were difficult to enforce in the Highlands and it is quite possible that in the Highlands people would have worn the tartan of their choice. The wearing of a particular tartan demonstrates a blood connection with a particular clan. Even my kinswoman, Miss Jean Rollo, who lived in Edinburgh in 1746, made it a point to wear a tartan gown in the Canongate in defiance of the law!

[macwilkin]

Here are two articles from Matt's blog you might want to read concerning this subject, especially the second one:

http://blog.albanach.org/2006/07/macneil-tartans.html

http://blog.albanach.org/2006/05/macgregor-tartans.html

I'm sure Matt can shed some light on the subject for you.

Cheers,

Todd

[ardchoille]

Here are two articles from Matt's blog you might want to read concerning this subject, especially the second one:

http://blog.albanach.org/2006/07/macneil-tartans.html

http://blog.albanach.org/2006/05/macgregor-tartans.html

I'm sure Matt can shed some light on the subject for you.

Cheers,

Todd

Ah, yes, that second link is excellent! Thank you for posting it