Laydown Collar for Formalwear?

**Bob C** · 14th October 07, 09:29 AM

Lay-down collars on tux shirts always remind me of old Vegas entertainers. I always wear the winged collars.

As others have said, however, it's certainly acceptable if that's what you prefer.

**Nervous Jock** · 14th October 07, 09:36 AM

Its not something to get retentive about but the "proper" shirt to wear with "black tie" is a fold down collar.

Agreed on the self tieing bow tie, pre tied bow ties are just wrong.

you'll see I'm wearing a fold down in the photo's I recently posted. I have owned a wing tip before but wouldn't consider doing so now. Its the old marcella pattern shirt for me

**Chef** · 14th October 07, 10:08 AM

Originally Posted by Bob C.

Lay-down collars on tux shirts always remind me of old Vegas entertainers. I always wear the winged collars..

They remind me of Bond, James Bond. I believe he always wears a lay-down collar with black tie:

And of course:

If it's been good enough for 007, for the last 40 years, it's good enough for me.

**ccga3359** · 14th October 07, 10:18 AM

Originally Posted by Chef

They remind me of Bond, James Bond. I believe he always wears a lay-down collar with black tie:

And of course:

If it's been good enough for 007, for the last 40 years, it's good enough for me.

And the only Bond that actually wore a kilt is the one not flashing his Walther Sgian Dubh. Hmmmm.

**Chef** · 14th October 07, 10:36 AM

Originally Posted by ccga3359

And the only Bond that actually wore a kilt is the one not flashing his Walther Sgian Dubh. Hmmmm.

In his traditional Bond pose it is difficult to tell he is wearing a laydown collar so i chose a different one

Better?

Of course I mustn't forget the kilt content:

**David Dalglish** · 14th October 07, 10:54 AM

I think it comes down to preferance to which shirt you wear, both are good. I like a wing tip for my PC. but a lay down for my Argyll jacket.

**fluter** · 14th October 07, 07:26 PM

Originally Posted by ccga3359

And the only Bond that actually wore a kilt is the one not flashing his Walther Sgian Dubh. Hmmmm.

Aren't we forgetting

Surely he wore a kilt in Casino Royale, Mk. II (1967); but I can't lay fingers on a photo... Presumably we will ignore the impostor, who nevertheless has good taste in shirts:

About Mk. I, my understanding is "the less said, the better!"

I have never reconciled myself to the wing collar with black tie; but usually I'm one of 2 such fogies in any group of 50.

**MacMillan of Rathdown** · 20th December 07, 10:25 AM

Gentlemen, a pet peeve. Standing collars vs. folded collars:

To begin with, any suggestion that "wings" are "only" to be worn with white tie is utter pig-poo! Wings are properly worn with black tie if one is dining out. The folded collar is worn with black tie when one is dining in. So much for what is absolutely "proper".

Since folded collars are much more convenient and generally more comfortable so have they become the standard of a gentleman's black tie evening attire. Generally speaking a folded collar shirt is to be preferred as the collar will fit properly, something that can not be said for the majority of shirts with "wing" collars that are attached to the shirt itself. (A proper evening shirt has a detachable collar.) These attached wing collars tend to be too short and allow the tie to ride up onto the back of the neck. They also "wilt" because they are not stiff enough to withstand the heat and light persperation of being worn next to the skin. Fold over collars also wilt, but it is not as noticable due to their shape.

With white tie only a wing collar is worn (as is a white waistcoat-- black is only worn by butlers and footmen). Never wear a fold over collar with white tie. Ever.

As for pre-tied ties? I regard them as something of a social fraud. A gentleman ties his tie.