Are you REALLY Celtic?

[turpin]

Narrow feet, here, but the big toes are the same length at the second.

[auld argonian]

Re Steve's examples as shown in the paintings that he posted...

...at what appears to be their greatest dispersion over Europe (c.500-200 BC), Celtic types were present in the North Eastern quarter of the Appenine Penninsula. (Basing this on "The Celts: A Very Short Introduction by Barry Cunliffe....boy...there's a Welsh name if I ever heard one, eh?) Anyway, they did manage to insinuate themselves in that corner of the world. I also seem to remember that William Manchester, in A World Lit Only By Fire, mentioned that one of the things that Catherine de Medici had going for her was, besides her reputed incredible intelligence and obvious family connections, her reddy-gold hair which apparently made her the ultimate dude-magnet of her day. I'd postulate that there was some of that ol' Celtic DNA at work there....hey...who else here remembers Luciana Paluzzi? Schwing!

So there were Celts roaming around and, presumably, procreating in what is now Italy in the pre-Roman Empire era...

So there's every possibility that those toes have legitimate Celtic origins!

...we will not, however, take any of the blame for Roberto Benigni!

But I certainly can't take the "Toe Theory" that seriously. It's interesting but certainly can't be considered definitive. Look, there's going to be another one of those shows on PBS soon where they do DNA screenings on prominent African Americans and give them the lowdown on their actual genetic roots. Last time they got Henry Louis Gates, probably the pre-eminent African American scholar of our time, to sit down and told him that according to his DNA he was something like 70 per cent Northern European. Everybody is a hodge podge of ethnicity and I say jolly good because that means that you can't have a bad attitude about anybody because they may very well be more closely related to you than you think.

And the Wiz is right on in talking about language groups. Burial customs and certain decorative motifs also seem to be elements used to define ethnicity as well. All in all, it's fascinating and I am being constantly surprised by all of the connections that keep being discovered.

And where else am I going to see discussions of this type but Xmarks?

Best

AA

[Farlander]

I was at a ballroom dance last night in Palo Alto California. A number of the ladies wore open toe shoes, so having recently read this thread, I found myself observing toes.

From my very un-scientific small survey of female toes in this small part of California, my conclusion is...
(drum roll please)
All female ballroom dancers in this part of California are Celtic!

Hmmm...

[Jack Daw]

Oh, I don't go for the toe or the body temp theories. Just havin' a bit of fun. I don't believe I have seen more than two or three people in my lifetime that had a big toe longer than number 2.

[Ozman1944]

"If it helps with you being from Oz, I can guess with some certainty that you are descended from criminals, possibly Celtic criminals!"

'Fraid not; Only New South Wales (Sydney) was a Penal Colony 18th Cent.. South Australia wasn't settled 'til many years after the Penal era, early 19th Cent. My dad's ancestors immigrated from Wales or Cornwall to work the Moonta copper mines, my mum's family as Protestant missionaries. South Australia takes pride in being a Free Settlement. We still delight in teasing Sydney's (now) "aristocracy"; ("What did your family do again?").

[gilmore]

... Look, there's going to be another one of those shows on PBS soon where they do DNA screenings on prominent African Americans and give them the lowdown on their actual genetic roots. Last time they got Henry Louis Gates, probably the pre-eminent African American scholar of our time, to sit down and told him that according to his DNA he was something like 70 per cent Northern European. Everybody is a hodge podge of ethnicity and I say jolly good because that means that you can't have a bad attitude about anybody because they may very well be more closely related to you than you think....

Well, no, it told him that his was 50% European and 50% African. And that was by autosomal DNA testing, which is not at all very reliable as to percentages after 3-4 generations. At any rate, that fact was something that was not at all surprising to him, according to the way the program was edited anyhow, by the paper trail.

If you will go back and read the article in the first post in this thread, it was British doctors in WWII who defined Celtic for their big toe study purposes as soldiers who were Welsh, Scots or Irish.

[Ruanaidh]

The modern name for the condition of having the second toe longer than the big toe is called "Morton's toe". In the classical world it was called the "Greek foot" in contrast to the "Egyptian foot" where the big toe was longer.

[Makeitstop]

I have the toe thing, and I'm a size 13 6E, and I do use my feet as an extra set of hands. I have a little reddish hair, but not on my head. My body temperature seems to vary dramatically for no apparent reason, ranging from 94 to 102 under seemingly normal circumstances. I also react to sunlight like a fork in a microwave.

But I also have plenty of other traits from around the globe.

[slohairt]

Whenever I read or hear about things that claim to physically determine one as a Celt, I mull about what it to be Celtic in the 21st Century.

The Celts were/are defined as a ethno-linguistic group with an attendant culture. I imagine this would describe most cultural groups, really. Physicality meant little to them and so it should mean little to us. Though most of the posters/members here are North American-born and claim a "Heinz 57" lineage, those of us born in the "old countries" can also claim a similar mixed origin, though likely not quite as diverse. I, myself, was born in Ireland, have a Scottish-born grandmother, and therefore probably have the "blood" of every group who resided in Ireland and Great Britain.

Yes, I am tall. Yes, I am pale and burn in the sun. Yes, I have reddish-brown hair. Yes, I have the toe requirements. But many in my family do not. In fact, most are dark-haired and a bit swarthy. My father is often mistaken for being of a Mediterranean origin! (Until they hear him speak of course!)

The Anglicisation (and therefore disintegration) of Celtic culture was almost completed by the turn of the 20th Century. The near-death of the Celtic languages has struck a very serious blow to the integrity of these cultures. Once the languages and cultural practices are gone, so too will the Celts disappear. It is possible that some may die within our lifetime.

Perhaps I am off-base, but I sometimes feel we are clutching at anything when we bring up genetics and physical traits. Culture meant more to them and should mean more to us.

[BoldHighlander]

Whenever I read or hear about things that claim to physically determine one as a Celt, I mull about what it to be Celtic in the 21st Century.

<snip>

The Anglicisation (and therefore disintegration) of Celtic culture was almost completed by the turn of the 20th Century. The near-death of the Celtic languages has struck a very serious blow to the integrity of these cultures. Once the languages and cultural practices are gone, so too will the Celts disappear. It is possible that some may die within our lifetime.

Perhaps I am off-base, but I sometimes feel we are clutching at anything when we bring up genetics and physical traits. Culture meant more to them and should mean more to us.

Very well said sir!
It does mean more to me than one's toe being longer than the other, or if I have reddish hair roots or not.

I have noticed in recent times a resurgence in the learning & practice of the Celtic/Gaelic language, both locally and elsewhere, in an attempt to both preserve it for future generations & as a way to connect with ones ancestral past.

Here in Washington state, for instance we have Slighe nan Gaidheal:
http://www.slighe.com/
a non-profit educational society that teaches and promotes the Scottish Gaelic language and culture in the Pacific Northwest.
As matter of fact I just attended the first (of what is hoped to be many) Scottish Gaelic study group in my town of Bellingham (which I helped to organize incidentally), & which also includes the current board president of Slighe nan Gaidheal.

As an aside, we also have a punk band out of Seattle called Mill a h-Uile Rud:
http://www.millahuilerud.com/
who sing entirely in Scottish Gaelic & promote the use of the language in daily life etc, (as much as can be done in everyday American life that is).

There are those of us trying to keep the language & culture alive in many ways, rather it be learning the Gaelic language, attending cultural events, playing the music, discovering and cooking the recipes & brewing the drinks, or wearing of the kilt etc etc., otherwise as you say it will die.
And that would be a shame for all!