What's in a name?

[Ian.MacAllan]

The idea that there are correct and incorrect ways to spell words is a fairly modern notion, dating back to only the first half of the 19th Century, . . ..

[QUIBBLE][NIT_PICK] Dr. Johnson produced his dictionary in the middle of the eighteenth century. I think he deserves recognition both for the excellence of his scholarship and because he had the wit to define lexicographer as "a harmless drudge." [/NIT_PICK][/QUIBBLE] Admittedly, some of his definitions offered more amusement than enlightenment (e.g., network, n., anything reticulated or desegulated at regular intervals, with interstices between the intersections).


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[slohairt]

The idea that there are correct and incorrect ways to spell words is a fairly modern notion, dating back to only the first half of the 19th Century, less than 200 years ago, when dictionaries were first introduced. Before then everyone spelled words as they sounded to them. So Mac, Mc, M', and other variations are all equally correct or equally incorrect, as is whether the patronymic prefix is separated from the rest of the name.

I have a copy of a deed from the 1750's in which my surname was recorded in the index of deed book under one spelling, spelled a second way when the clerk copied it in the body of the deed, and shows my ancestor's signature's having been copied in a third spelling, presumably by the same clerk, the way we happen to spell it today.

This is very true, if we were discussing the English language. But we are not. There were Irish language dictionaries long before the 19th Century. Being the third oldest European literary language, Irish (Gaelic) has been codified and structured a lot longer than English has. Applying the rules of the English language as to how it variably Anglicised Gaelic names is irrelevant.

MacIntyre, or any of its variant Anglicisations is originally Mac an tSaoir, pronounced MAC AN TEER, meaning son of the carpenter.

[gilmore]

[QUIBBLE][NIT_PICK] Dr. Johnson produced his dictionary in the middle of the eighteenth century. I think he deserves recognition both for the excellence of his scholarship and because he had the wit to define lexicographer as "a harmless drudge." [/NIT_PICK][/QUIBBLE] Admittedly, some of his definitions offered more amusement than enlightenment (e.g., network, n., anything reticulated or desegulated at regular intervals, with interstices between the intersections).


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Perhaps I should have specified widely used dictionaries that were using in the teaching of the English language. This did not start until after Johnson's time, with Noah Webster and those of his period, when near universal literacy was the goal of educational systems. And it is the spelling that concerns us here, not the definitions.

[Riverkilt]

I really like being able to spell my name the way I was taught by my father and my grandfather, rather than to please someone else.

I have a copy of a document written by my four great grandfather Gray Macdonald where he spells his name that way. No Mc or MacD in my family other than when someone outside the family spells our name wrong.

Ron

[~JM~]

Thanks folks, here's a pic.

[MacMillan of Rathdown]

This is very true, if we were discussing the English language. But we are not. There were Irish language dictionaries long before the 19th Century. Being the third oldest European literary language, Irish (Gaelic) has been codified and structured a lot longer than English has.

How long has Irish been standardized, in terms of spelling and written forms?

[slohairt]

How long has Irish been standardized, in terms of spelling and written forms?

Irish has undergone change, like any other language. However, over the last 1000 years it has not changed to the extent that English has. Some spellings have changed, but most of those were done in the 1940s by Séamas Dáltún.

Cormac's Glossary, written in the 9th Century, is often considered to be the first non-Classical language dictionary. Ó Cléririgh (of 'Four Masters' fame) printed one in the 1640s and Richard Plunkett compiled a Latin-Irish dictionary in 1662. This was only in manuscript form, and was later used by Edward Lhuyd, the Welsh linguist. The first widely published English-Irish dictionary was printed in 1732 in Paris, and compiled by Ó Baeglaoich and Mac Cruitín.

People may (and do) spell their names as they like. The point I was making earlier was that we are discussing the English spellings of a foreign word. In essence, they are all correct and all wrong at the same time. I can assure you that Mac an tSaoir was spelled the same 500 years ago as it is today!

Inconsistent orthography is a hallmark of the English language and one should be careful in assuming that other languages would follow the same pattern.

Now, back to the signature! The underscored 'c' is rather nice-looking. In fact, the signature itself is very flashy and almost looks like a logo!

[McMathTX]

My line of the McMaths have always superscripted the c with double underlines.
Dean

[Highland Logan]

I wish I could find the reference, which a friend requested a couple of months ago. The absence of the "a", is just shorthand. There was a Scottish writer, whom when making his point wrote his own name in the three different forms within his article. Mac (the original), Mc, and lastly M'.

Frank

[slohairt]

I wish I could find the reference, which a friend requested a couple of months ago. The absence of the "a", is just shorthand. There was a Scottish writer, whom when making his point wrote his own name in the three different forms within his article. Mac (the original), Mc, and lastly M'.

Frank

You're right, it is shorthand. Or rather, it is a printer's contraction that people starting using themselves.