The Clearances

[slohairt]

History is poorly taught everywhere. Here in Canada, a lot of Canadians laugh at Americans who know little about Canada while they themselves know little more!

I remember commenting on clans and chiefs in a different thread and I have some rather strong opinions about them, but I won't bother repeating them again. I personally think the adulation some have for the institution is simply a continuation of the 'Balmoralisation' of the 19th Century. (Maybe it is just the Irishman from the Republic in me talking!)

Though I am loathe to use a Braveheart quote on this forum () I'll quote Hamish, because it truly sums up my view on them: A bunch of scheming b*st*rds who cannot agree on the colour of sh*te!

P.S. If you're referring to An Gorta Mór, Greg, I'll just say that it was a complicated matter that involved a lot of factors. However, events leading up to that period in history can certainly be blamed on some.

[beloitpiper]

Jock, you're entirely right that the blight was natural and humans did not inflict it on the crops.

If you're referring to An Gorta Mór, Greg, I'll just say that it was a complicated matter that involved a lot of factors. However, events leading up to that period in history can certainly be blamed on some.

But Slohairt makes my point. It wasn't the failure of the crops, but the lack of support during the famine that I argue.

[Jock Scot]

Jock, you're entirely right that the blight was natural and humans did not inflict it on the crops.



But Slohairt makes my point. It wasn't the failure of the crops, but the lack of support during the famine that I argue.

Thank you so much for your reply.I have no doubts whatsoever that some took advantage of the crop failures to "feather their own nest".Nothing much changes does it?Its still going on in many places in the world.

Getting back to the clearances and the potato famine. I think that the British government,local officialdom and society in general were not prepared and had no knowledge or facilities available to handle the disaster that landed on them.To put it simply they were out of their depth.Nevertheless I make no excuses for those who took advantage, of hungry peoples plight, whether they were in government or some local landlord who sat back(could they have helped?Some were in the same predicament!),did nothing and just waited for the dreadful events to unfold.

Of course the potato famine was an awful episode in the much longer saga of the clearances of the Highlands and Ireland.

[sharpdressedscot]

Modern Germans resent being forced to learn in primary school about the holocaust and their ancestors part in that horror wrought by men, white americans try to ignore the plight of inner city poor blacks as a longterm result of slavery and their own version of the Highland clearances involving the native americans and the american west.

I'd like to point something out. When somebody's ancestors did something that hurt the world or people in it, people tend to want to forget it ever happened. Sure, we can't erase it but we can learn from it. And not everything in history was about inventions or people discovering things or places, people died! Last year as part of our education we had to watch "Roots," it's a story of an African slave and his new life on the plantation, after we watch it our teacher proposed a good question (Not word for word): "Should we learn about things like this, even if it is very graphic?"

[Galician]

I'd like to point something out. When somebody's ancestors did something that hurt the world or people in it, people tend to want to forget it ever happened. Sure, we can't erase it but we can learn from it. And not everything in history was about inventions or people discovering things or places, people died! Last year as part of our education we had to watch "Roots," it's a story of an African slave and his new life on the plantation, after we watch it our teacher proposed a good question (Not word for word): "Should we learn about things like this, even if it is very graphic?"

As a partial answer to this, SDS, I remember when "Roots" was first broadcast on TV as one of the first mini-series on that medium. News reports of the day reported how traffic stopped on those evenings, all over the country. Interest in genealogy--regardless of ethnic background--exploded in this nation as a direct result of that show. Maybe this forum itself is an indirect result of it.

[sharpdressedscot]

As a partial answer to this, SDS, I remember when "Roots" was first broadcast on TV as one of the first mini-series on that medium. News reports of the day reported how traffic stopped on those evenings, all over the country. Interest in genealogy--regardless of ethnic background--exploded in this nation as a direct result of that show. Maybe this forum itself is an indirect result of it.

Maybe so, I hadn't thought of that.

[gilmore]

I'd like to point something out. When somebody's ancestors did something that hurt the world or people in it, people tend to want to forget it ever happened. Sure, we can't erase it but we can learn from it. And not everything in history was about inventions or people discovering things or places, people died! Last year as part of our education we had to watch "Roots," it's a story of an African slave and his new life on the plantation, after we watch it our teacher proposed a good question (Not word for word): "Should we learn about things like this, even if it is very graphic?"

I am very surprised to read this.

It has been conclusively shown that at two separate points, Alex Haley hit brick walls in in his research and could go no further in tracing his ancestry. So, he took liberties with the facts and started tracing families' ancestries that were not his own.

This is fairly well-known in genealogical circles. I am sure that if you Google, you can find the details.

"Roots" is an interesting read, and it tells a story that comports with a narrative that some would like to believe, but much of it is fiction, not fact, so I am surprised to see it taught as if it was history.

[Peter C.]

Thank you so much for your reply.I have no doubts whatsoever that some took advantage of the crop failures to "feather their own nest".Nothing much changes does it?Its still going on in many places in the world.

Getting back to the clearances and the potato famine. I think that the British government,local officialdom and society in general were not prepared and had no knowledge or facilities available to handle the disaster that landed on them.To put it simply they were out of their depth.Nevertheless I make no excuses for those who took advantage, of hungry peoples plight, whether they were in government or some local landlord who sat back(could they have helped?Some were in the same predicament!),did nothing and just waited for the deadful events to unfold.

Of course the potato famine was an awful episode in the much longer saga of the clearances of the Highlands and Ireland.

I am English, I was always disgusted that the British government didn't stop the people affected by the potato famine from starving. Now we are trying to stop people in Africa from starving and it is very difficult even today.

Having read your very wize words Jock, I wonder why I didn't think of that myself. It seems so obvious when it is put infront of you. thank you Jock.

I think the moral of this is that we should learn about history, be proud of the good bits, but not too proud, regret the bad bits if you like, but learn from them.

Then if we learn from the bad bits, those poor people who suffered will have done more for the world than they could ever imagine.

Great thread, I've learned a lot.

Peter