Is this Celtic Music? French?

[Ayin McFye]

http://www.crwflags.com/fotw/flags/int-celt.html

That's some cool stuff. I had never even heard of a Celtic Flag that represented all of those. Thanks for the info!

[Galician]

Interesting flag, and comments on the "leagues" of Celtishness. I wonder if there will cease to be such a distinction as the use of Irish and Scots(?) continues to fade on the Isles, being replaced by English.

I do notice that celebrations which identify themselves as "Celtic," as opposed to Scots or Irish, speak of 7 or 8 Nations, recognizing Galicia and Asturias as part of the Celtic world.

Personally, I believe a Tunisian professor I had, who was Berber, and who identified his people as Celtic. Redheads who are nomadic! Sound familiar? Anyone ready for NINE Celtic nations?

[slohairt]

Interesting flag, and comments on the "leagues" of Celtishness. I wonder if there will cease to be such a distinction as the use of Irish and Scots(?) continues to fade on the Isles, being replaced by English.

I do notice that celebrations which identify themselves as "Celtic," as opposed to Scots or Irish, speak of 7 or 8 Nations, recognizing Galicia and Asturias as part of the Celtic world.

Personally, I believe a Tunisian professor I had, who was Berber, and who identified his people as Celtic. Redheads who are nomadic! Sound familiar? Anyone ready for NINE Celtic nations?

Irish isn't on the decline, and hasn't been for decades. Flourishing? Not really, but not fading away. It does have the distinct advantage of being the first official language of the only sovereign Celtic nation. Now that Ireland is better off financially, I think you'll see more money and effort devoted to the language.

Oh, and unless you're referring to Scottish Gaelic, Scots is the Germanic language related to English.

I know this is an area that has been trod many times before, with no clear conclusion, but I'll say it again in the spirit of friendly debate. You'll find that few academic sources/institutions regard Galicia or Asturias as Celtic. Celtic-influenced? Certainly. More so than some other European cultures? Probably. I took Celtic Studies at UCD in Dublin, and the criteria was always language spoken in the modern period and attendant culture.

Arbitrary though it may seem, the line must be drawn somewhere. For the purposes of Celtic Studies it is drawn at linguistics. As I said before, the Irish language (Gaeilge) exists and it is an official language. Furthermore, it has a written form in the Roman alphabet and also has a large body of literature. The other five Celtic languages share these same characteristics in varying degrees (particularly in the matter of legal status). Unfortunately, the language(s) spoken by the Iberian Celts are even less documented than Gaulish. There isn't really a language to study, or even resurrect for that matter. Applying the Celtic ethno-linguistic label to these people would mean that it has to be extended to virtually all of western Europe.

Sorry to rant a bit, but this was a subject that came up frequently in school!

[Galician]

As you say, the line is arbitrary, and perhaps a bit self-serving? The Iberian peninsula underwent many waves of conquest (including Arab), so to use that criteria might not fit the historical reality of other societies.

As an further example, I myself was surprised by my Berber professor's claim that they are Celtic. I haven't researched it, but if that is their national self-identification, who are a bunch of academics in Dublin to question it?

[slohairt]

I'm not sure if it would be self-serving, because I don't know whose benefit it would serve. It is, however, a defensive stance, perhaps. As we all know, all things Celtic have become popular over the last number of decades. This is is good thing, because it (hopefully) educates people about a culture that was long neglected by academics in London and Paris. However, this has also led various groups to attach themselves to this 'Pan-Celticism' without really sharing much in common with them.

There are Celtic Studies in many universities in countries (not just Ireland) which are not 'Celtic' like Germany. These schools, and scholars who have and still now devote their lives to the study of a subject do deserve to be treated as something of an authority on the matter. They, and those of the past, have done more work on the subject than many of us could ever hope to accomplish. Especially some dude who's website refers to Breton as Gaelic!

Defining the populations of Europe (or anywhere) by physical make-up is rather pointless in the end, because, more often than not, the culture, language, and genetics do not match up with perceived expectations. Thus, in most academic circles they define it as linguistic. It's really all they have to go on. It would be the same situation if one were studying the Slavic Peoples or the Germanic peoples. They are linguistic groups who also share cultural characteristics. Do they have the same ancestors? Yes, no, maybe. It doesn't really matter. To use Galicia, for an example, Galego is a language in the Romance family. Does this mean the Galicians are direct descendants of the Romans? No, they are the product of many peoples: Romans, Arabs, Celts, Visigoths, and who knows what else.

I've never heard of Berbers in North Africa referring to themselves as Celtic. I'm sure Celts probably were in North Africa at some point in history. Maybe Carthage. But I seriously doubt that any Celtic language has been spoken there in the last millennium, if there ever was to begin with. So, I would say no, they are not. They are of the Afro-Asiatic linguistic group, which isn't even Indo-European.

[Ayin McFye]

I appreciate the debate and conversation that you are both having. Perhaps it would be better suited to be started in a new thread though, that way more people will be likely to offer their input as well. You can even copy and paste your original comments to the new thread so that others may be up to date on the debate.

I completely understand why this thread has moved into this direction because we we discussing other cultures playing celtic music. I just think you both have great points that could be shared with everyone.

Thank you both for the fantastic information though. It fully explains why other cultures would be playing the music I posted here.

cheers!

[slohairt]

Sorry about that!

To bring it back around to your original topic, it's worth noting that a number of Breton bands probably sing in French, the same way many Irish bands sing in English.