Need advice: run in with Kilt (feather?) Police

[kmaclea]

Indeed, everyone else has stated what I know... but I'll add more anyway.

Generally 3 eagle feathers=chief, 2=chieftain/similar, 1=armiger (one with his own (Scottish) coat of arms). In those circumstances, the crest will ALSO be shown NOT in a "strap and buckle" format, but in a plain circlet, because it doesn't mean an "allegiance" to anyone else, just that these are that person's own legally-owned arms.

Of course, assumption of arms and wearing of any kind of feather you wish is perfectly legal in the US (provided the feathers themselves are not from some illegally-obtained species or whatnot). But many people consider that not following the Scottish rules at Scottish games is at worst morally repugnant and at best a slightly inappropriate thing to do? I'm not one of those people, but there are many who will look down their nose at you if you do.

If I had to advocate for a middle road, I would suggest that wearing your own arms in a plain circlet, even if they have been assumed under American traditions, is perfectly fine at Scottish games (are you going to tell me that I can't wear my own arms, even if they weren't granted by Lord Lyon, anywhere I want in this "land of the free"?).

However, DO steer clear of anything that looks like an eagle feather (even one as an armiger, unless you have been granted arms by Lord Lyon--in other words NOT if you've assumed the arms yourself). I think this is more likely to make it look like you are "putting on airs" than anything else. Don't do it unless you KNOW you are entitled to it, because there are ALWAYS "feather police" out there wanting to know about your entitlement.

Just my thoughts.

Kyle=

[macwilkin]

Indeed, everyone else has stated what I know... but I'll add more anyway.

Generally 3 eagle feathers=chief, 2=chieftain/similar, 1=armiger (one with his own (Scottish) coat of arms). In those circumstances, the crest will ALSO be shown NOT in a "strap and buckle" format, but in a plain circlet, because it doesn't mean an "allegiance" to anyone else, just that these are that person's own legally-owned arms.

Of course, assumption of arms and wearing of any kind of feather you wish is perfectly legal in the US (provided the feathers themselves are not from some illegally-obtained species or whatnot). But many people consider that not following the Scottish rules at Scottish games is at worst morally repugnant and at best a slightly inappropriate thing to do? I'm not one of those people, but there are many who will look down their nose at you if you do.

If I had to advocate for a middle road, I would suggest that wearing your own arms in a plain circlet, even if they have been assumed under American traditions, is perfectly fine at Scottish games (are you going to tell me that I can't wear my own arms, even if they weren't granted by Lord Lyon, anywhere I want in this "land of the free"?).

However, DO steer clear of anything that looks like an eagle feather (even one as an armiger, unless you have been granted arms by Lord Lyon--in other words NOT if you've assumed the arms yourself). I think this is more likely to make it look like you are "putting on airs" than anything else. Don't do it unless you KNOW you are entitled to it, because there are ALWAYS "feather police" out there wanting to know about your entitlement.

Just my thoughts.

Kyle=

Well said, Kyle. I tend to take a middle-of-the-road approach myself. It seems that the idea of assumed arms for Americans are becoming more accepted among heraldic cirlces, although there are several other options for those who cannot obtain a grant of arms from the Lyon Court or the College of Arms.

A number of Americans have registered their arms with the New England Historic Genealogical Society's Committee on Heraldry, the Heraldry Society of America, the American College of Heraldry, etc. Most of these are private organizations with no recognition from any government agency, but it's better than nothing. Other Americans have registered arms with the South African Bureau of Heraldry or with the Spanish government, although the latter is in a state of limbo given the death of the last Spanish cronista de armas in 2005.

Regards,

Todd

[Deil the Yin]

I just wanted to chime in in support of Ronusan: I'm no heraldry lawyer, but it would seem to me that, according to the posts of our knowledgeable friends here at the X, this chappy was well out of place in making a scene over your bonnet! Even if I had thought the same thing about your bonnet, I hope I would have had the good sense and common decency to my fellow man to not call you out in public as he did in an attempt to berate. This pointe alone boils my blood! It is ignorant and arrogant and smacks of British Imperialism, which in my opinion is the absolute opposite of Gaelic/Celtic culture! Needless to say the fellow didn' t know what he was talking about, and it was certainly not his place to question your dignity or honour.

So guid on ye for carrying on our Gaelic heritage.

[macwilkin]

I just wanted to chime in in support of Ronusan: I'm no heraldry lawyer, but it would seem to me that, according to the posts of our knowledgeable friends here at the X, this chappy was well out of place in making a scene over your bonnet! Even if I had thought the same thing about your bonnet, I hope I would have had the good sense and common decency to my fellow man to not call you out in public as he did in an attempt to berate. This pointe alone boils my blood! It is ignorant and arrogant and smacks of British Imperialism, which in my opinion is the absolute opposite of Gaelic/Celtic culture! Needless to say the fellow didn' t know what he was talking about, and it was certainly not his place to question your dignity or honour.

So guid on ye for carrying on our Gaelic heritage.

Please, let's not Brit-bash here. These customs being discussed deal with Scottish heraldic customs which were in place long before the Union of the Crowns and the creation of the United Kingdom.

T.

[auld argonian]

Also be aware of the fact that possession of Eagle feathers without the proper federal dispensation (for any one of several very good reasons) can land you in the scheiss. This has been brought up here on previous occasions but since I've spent the last year recovering banged up birds under a permit from the DFW, I've had to basically swear that I won't take or keep any feathers from the birds that I rescue.

Pheasants, as I understand it, are either farmed or not included in the list of protected birds so there shouldn't be a problem...

...UNTIL you run into someone who thinks that he knows more than you do and decides that he feels like mouthing off. You were in the food line? Was this fella in the beer line?

At least you got off easy...I seem to remember one of our kilted brethren telling a story about being confronted by a drunken dude who insisted that the Xsmarkser was wearing "his clan tartan" and that he had to take the kilt off right then and there or violence was going to ensue. The alcohol-impaired challenger was, reportedly, subsequently restrained by his fellow clan members and the Xsmarkser went on his merry way.

Just another example of something that was being kicked around on the "Kilt Do's and Don'ts" thread: there's a right way and a wrong way to let someone know how to fine-tune their kilt outfit. Polite and constructive and don't pontificate!

Best

AA

[James MacMillan]

What about Pink Feathers?????

[davedove]

What about Pink Feathers?????

Careful, the FLF (Flamingo Liberation Front) may come after you.

[JerseyLawyer]

I agree that you should avoid eagle feathers, or anything that looks like eagle feathers. That's not the same thing as a cocade, though, or cock feathers like you sometimes see worn (which are curved, IIRC).

Anyway, I guess four feathers would make you king.

[Nick the DSM]

you could say that you just hunted fowl recently and like the look of the feathers in your hat.

[Finn]

When I was reenacting in Indiana, we had alot of concern over feathers. It wasn't a heraldry issue, but conservation. Not unlike AA's situation, we had to be aware of the birds from which we got our feathers. Many of our events were at parks run by one government or another (county, state, fed...), so we were always careful not to grab the attention of the DNR folks present. Even if it were taken off the ground, there were certain species (breeds?) that we couldn't use. I think I ended up with turkey.