TKN 16oz. PV v. SWK HW wool -- informed opinions wanted, please

[brad.hutchins]

Ya.....the quick way to tell the difference is the size of the pleats.....the 8 yard kilts will have tight 1 inch pleats, whereas the 5 yarders will be about 2 inches (visible)

[Alan H]

Um.....unless the sett is really big, and I mean 9-10 inches, a kilt sized to fit your average guy that has 1-inch pleats is nowhere NEAR 8 yards of material.

Refer to my "annual lecture" post currently in the general kilt talk forum. An "eight yard kilt" with a sett size of around 5.5 -6.5 inches will result in pleat reveals roughly 5/8ths inch in width for an average sized man. If the guy is really, really big, like with a 55+ inch waist and hips pushing 60 inches and the sett size is fairly large, THEN you might get on-inch pleats out of eight yards.

Normally a SIX YARD KILT with a sett size of around 6 inches would result in twenty two - twenty five pleats with one-inch reveals on an average-sized man.

How do I know this? I've made four of them. In fact, just this morning I pressed the fell of a six-yard kilt in preparation for sewing the pleats. It has 25 pleats with 1 inch pleat reveals to go around the backside of my 48 inch rumpus. The sett is right about six inches. It's a six yard kilt...and will be quite the nice kilt, but it's NOT eight yards of material or even close to it.

Teaming this stated anomaly up with the mysterious "16 ounce Polyester-Viscose" and I have to say I'm skeptical, here.

Also, you don't need to disassemble a kilt to measure the yardage. Just measure at the bottom, the selvedged edge. I'd suggest that you might want to do that, soon, Kilted Nation.

[The Wizard of BC]

It's strange all the mis-information and myth that surround this thing we call The Kilt.

Yes, we call a well made Traditional Style Kilt an "8 yarder" when in fact there are four things that determine how much fabric is actually in the kilt.
The first two are the Hip size if the wearer and the Sett of the Tartan.

There is one other factor that is determined by the Kiltmaker that will have an effect on the amount of fabric and that is Pleat Reveal.
Take for example a Tartan with a Sett(or one full repeat of the Tartan Pattern) of 6 inches. If the pleat reveal(the amount of pleat that you see) is 1 inch, then the depth of the pleat will be 2 1/2 inches.
Now take that same Tartan and pleat it with a pleat reveal of 3/4 inch. The depth of the pleat will now be 2 5/8 inches. But the Kilt will require 20% more fabric because there are now more pleats and each pleat takes up one full Sett of fabric.

The final thing that effects the amount of fabric and that is the method of pleating. Pleating a Kilt to the Stripe takes a little less fabric that one pleated to the Sett.

To give you an example:
If I make a Tartan Model FK I use a 1 inch reveal and allow the amount of fabric to be determined solely by the hip size and size of Sett.
A Kilt for a person with a Hip size of 42 inches made with a Tartan with a Sett of 6 inches will require 6.93 yards of fabric if pleated to the Stripe and 7.65 yards if pleated to the Sett.

Here is how that changes if we change only the Sett size of the Tartan;

42" Hip, 5" Sett = 6.21 yards if pleated to the Stripe & 6.93 yards if pleated to the Sett.

Now I'll show you how the numbers change if we increase only the Hip size:

46" Hip, 6" Sett = 7.49 yards if pleated the the Stripe & 8.29 yards if pleated to the Sett.

Variables upon variables. This is why we consider Kiltmaking to be an art and not a just a craft.

I hope this hasn't hijacked this thread too much.

[Larry124]

I don't own an SWK Heavy, but do own 2 SWK Standards. I also own 2 of the TKN "16 oz" PV's.

The TKN Kilts are a 65% PV 35% Acetate blend. The cloth feels quite robust and durable. Certainly more durable than Acrylic, but not as durable as wool. Be careful pressing the PV as it will melt it exposed to a hot iron.

Given the choice, if the SWK Heavy was available in the tartan I wanted I would take that route, but I have no problem recommending the TKN kilts.

Chris...

From the pictures and selection it appears to me that the TKN 16 oz are the same as the Heritage of Scotland (Gold Brothers) casual kilts. Mine (from HoS) have the tags that read 65% vicose rayon and 35% acetate fibre. They are relatively heavy kilts with a feel that can run from a stiff canvas feel to much softer. Maybe washing or different batches. They are warm enough in spring and fall (US Mid-Atlantic State) and are good proof against wind and light to moderate rain. Mine have a hemmed bottom edge and somewhat a of a full-length flair.

My SWK Heavyweight’s are a lighter weight but the drape and feel of the wool feels more pleasing to me. They appear to have less yardage. They are slightly warmer in winter -- but for your local I’d recommend a heavier weight wool.

I find occasions/venues to wear both types. I’d recommend the SWK Heavyweight first (notwithstanding the laundering difference) as the better value.

[brad.hutchins]

You are correct in your assumption of origin. As to amount of fabric, I will differ to the experts (thanx for the info Steve), on what it takes to make the kilts.

Just measured two of these....the 32 inch waist kilt measures out at about 6.5 yards and the 46 inch waist measures out at just over 7.6 yards.

The pleat reveal is approximately 3/4 of an inch at the bottom, 5/8 of an inch a the bottom part of the sew down. The pleat depth looks to be between 2.5 a 3.25 inches.

As to terminology.....the standard I hear is "8 yard kilt" or "9 yard kilt"....this seems to be an accepted generic term, referring to the most yardage that can go into a kilt for the biggest of gentlemen. To be honest, I knew this from my dealings with and order that I have placed with Lochcarron and House of Edgar, just never bothered to physically measure the HoS kilts.

I believe I'll continue to use the generic terminology, but at least now I can tell folks true measurements when asked....just like I'll tell them where and who made these particular kilts, if they want to know.