Bull Denim for making kilts

**Alan H** · 17th September 08, 10:39 PM

Two thumbs down, from this guy. It utterly refuses to hold a pleat and wrinkles like hell.

It might work if you sew down both the inside crease and the outisde crease of your pleats, but I'm not holding my breath. I suppose at some point I'll press these pleats AGAIN and sew down the insides and see. Forget it, just totally forget it if you don't sew down the edges of your pleats.

I might wind up selling this one for cheap to someone who doesn't have a kilt, yet.

**ardchoille** · 17th September 08, 10:58 PM

I recently finished an X-kilt in 14 ounce denim (not sure if it's bull denim) and I don't like it much at all.. it doesn't hold a pleat very well and it doesn't swing.

**Smayniac** · 18th September 08, 03:19 PM

I'm not sure what constitutes "bull denim" either, but I'm currently working on a fairly straight blue jean denim kilt for young Scooby and I'm finding it fairly stubborn as regards any sort of pressing. He wants a blue kilt, he'll get one; at the rate he's growing, it may not fit for all that long anyway.

Bob

**Alan H** · 18th September 08, 03:26 PM

Bull Denim is 100% polyester. "Denim" in other colors....this kilt is black.....is often "Bull Denim".

This kilt has some sort of swing (20 pleats, 6 yards, reverse kinguisse), but crikey the pleats look awful after sitting on them for not-very-long.

**Nick the DSM** · 18th September 08, 03:30 PM

wonder how UK does it...

**Alan H** · 18th September 08, 04:34 PM

I have to say that if I'd made half or 2/3rds the number of pleats on a side, the thing might have come out better. I have ten pleats on a side, one-inch reveal and the pleats are 2 inches deep. If I'd made fewer, deeper pleats with a larger reveal it would then be much more like a Union Kilts denim kilt, which several of our members like quite well.

**The Wizard of BC** · 18th September 08, 04:54 PM

The name "Bull Denim" usually refers to a Denim fabric of 100% Cotton in weights heavier than 16oz per fabric yard.

Denim refers to a type of weave where the Warp and Weft yarns are not the same. The warp yarns are plain, un-dyed white, while the Weft yarns are colored.

It is the combination of the Cotton content and the different yarns that cause the problems.
First Cotton will not hold a crease. It's not supposed to. If you are old enough to remember 100% Cotton shirts, they needed Ironing after every washing and the liberal application of starch.
The second is Cotton Will wrinkle. Again, its supposed to.
The third problem with Denim is the different rate the Warp and Weft yarns will shrink. Look at the sides of a pair of Blue Jeans. See the ripples at every stitch line. Those puckers are caused by the difference in shrinkage between the Warp, Weft and stitching thread. Denim will pucker. It will do it at each and every stitch line. It's also shrinking in the middle of the fabric you just don't notice it.

The result is that I have been trying to tell people for years. Denim is a terrible fabric for Kilts. After only three or four washings you end up with a ballet tutu unless you are prepared to spend hours with an iron steaming and stretching back into shape each and every stitch line.

Some of the first Kilts I made were from a 21oz Bull Denim. The fabric was originally used as stage curtains. Heavy and dense this fabric made completely bullet proof Kilts. No swish at all but a wonderful feel when worn. I still have and wear them.
Each pleat edge, inside and out is topstitched. Everything is sealed to prevent anything from fraying. I love them.

**ardchoille** · 18th September 08, 05:33 PM

Thank you, Steve, for that very informative post. I won't be working with denim anymore.. it was just short of a nightmare.

**Riverkilt** · 18th September 08, 06:39 PM

Pittsburgh Kilts used a 9.5 ounce Bull Denim Twill for some of their kilts. I had one and it did curl but would use the hanging weights on the pleats after washing to keep them straight.

Ron

**Alan H** · 19th September 08, 02:34 PM

Originally Posted by The Wizard of BC

The name "Bull Denim" usually refers to a Denim fabric of 100% Cotton in weights heavier than 16oz per fabric yard.

.

Interesting, this stuff is from JoAnne's fabric, it said "Bull Denim" on the bolt end, and also said 100% polyester.

but this is JoAnne's and I've learned to be very skeptical of stuff that I buy there that doesn't come with someone elses label on it, like thread.

Each pleat edge, inside and out is topstitched. Everything is sealed to prevent anything from fraying. I love them.

I will say that the kilt feels great when it's on me. Hmmm. I will try stitching the inner pleat edges. We'll see about shrinkage.*sigh*