Thought and Ideas

[English Bloke]

A mixed bag of opinions there eh Jason? I’ve been watching this thread for a couple of days and it’s interesting to see how it unfolds.

For what it's worth I personally agree with Hospitaller for the reason that the US Military Tartans along with others like Royal Air Force and Royal Navy are not officially sanctioned and are therefore by definition 'Universal'.

I'm ex British Army and I am fully aware of soldier’s sensitivities as well as the legal implications of impersonation but I don't believe in this case it can be applied. I see blokes in my current (non Mil) work environment wearing combat gear all the time because it's practical and cheap (when bought 2nd hand surplus) but I don't assume they are currently serving or have served because of it... (and if they did and it was 'issued' to them, they should have handed it all in when they left anyway, the naughty chaps )

To see someone wearing proper medals they haven't earned, or wearing genuine identifying insignia (not baseball caps and t-shirts) to which they are not entitled, that really would rattle my cage but I don't see how a universal, commercially produced Tartan falls into this category.

I was out in a Pub with a couple of mates (also ex Army) last month and we met a Bloke who was telling us tales of his former military service. We were listening along to this compilation of other peoples bar stories without giving said Bloke any idea we had been IN and that we knew (with our 56 years combined service between us) that for sure he was talking sh… err.. telling lies. What he told us just didn’t tally with what WE knew. We found it quite amusing, if a little pathetic. We didn’t burst his bubble either until just before we left, He appeared quite deflated when he realised he'd been caught out and we departed, laughing at him rather than with him. Hopefully this was sufficient to deter him from Walter Mitty-ing again.

Had he been wearing medals falsely, or wearing kit to pass himself off as 'in' or 'been in' and told us the same stuff, that would have been a very different circumstance and our reaction would have been, like as not, much more hostile!

On the other hand, I’ve seen Ladies of all ages at Remembrance ceremonies in UK wearing sweetheart brooches of military badges and miniature medals (or sometimes even full size medals) worn on the right hand side and I think that to honour those you love in such a way is truly fitting and shows great respect. My sons wear family related miniature medals on the right side at Remembrance in honour of their Grandfather’s service in WW2 (My Father. He died in 1975) and another relative killed in WW1 (at 3rd Ypres – Passchedale, in 1917). They are not claiming to have been awarded the medals themselves; they are merely honouring those that have passed and a 16 y/o youngster wearing WW1 miniatures? Chances are they’re not his! Wearing them on the right indicates, by convention at least that they are not the wearer’s medals. Sweetheart Brooches and other badges like lapel pins, tie clips, embroidered caps etc are not official either so that's OK in my book too. On occasions of Remembrance and ONLY these occasions, I wear my own, full size medals on the Left along with my Beret and former Cap Badge and that's because I feel I can. I can’t think of any other time when wearing my issued medals or head-dress would be appropriate, even as an ex…. (Not that I've still got my issued head-dress you understand... I handed it back in when I left )

Anywhoo, back to universal Tartans. Clearly, there are those on this forum and presumably elsewhere who disagree with these sentiments and see the Military Tartans as out of bounds to most, regardless of any motivation of respect for the service and the personnel there-in, past or present. As a mark of respect to these people, and despite what Hospitaller say’s about 99% of people not having a clue, which they don’t… I suggest if you do decide to wear this Tartan, think carefully about why you want to wear it and be prepared to have a good answer ready if challenged. So long as you are honest and don’t claim to be something you are not, I’m sure you’ll have no problems from reasonable people.

[Riverkilt]

Anyone know who designed the U.S. Army tartan and what the intent of the designer was in creating this still "unofficial" tartan?

Before I ordered up the Royal Air Force tartan I spoke with the designer. I explained my father's service in the RAF and how I wished to honor his service as an American boy gone back to defend the ancestral homelands. He had no problem with it and even stated that anyone was welcome to wear the RAF tartan as long as they did it out of respect.

I never served in the U.S. Army but I own and wear a U.S. Army (unofficial) tartan kilt to honor my father's service in the U.S. Army Air Corps in North Africa, my uncle Don's service in France and Germany, and my Uncle Byron's service in the South Pacific in War II.

I did serve in the USMCR during the Cold War but I own and wear the (unofficial) Leatherneck tartan to honor my late brother's service in the USMC as a D.I.

I did serve in the USNR briefly but I own and wear a U.S. Navy Edzell tartan kilt to honor my father's service as a Navy Hospital Apprentice before he learned to fly and to honor my Uncle Larry and Cousin Bill's service in Naval Air during War II and Viet Nam respecively.

I have worn these (unofficial) military tartan kilts often including military holidays and Veteran's Day parades.

Not once has anyone approached me to "question" my right to wear a military tartan. Should that happen someday I would explain the reason I chose to purchase and wear the kilt. If they should morph into the tartan police I would explain that the tartan is unofficial and the designer, manufacturer, and kiltmaker all desire that anyone who cares to wear the tartan with honor is welcome to.

It is my desire to honor those who served that determines my right to wear these tartans - not some kilt cop's idea of "the law." Should any of these tartans become officially accepted then I would honor the new rules.

Ron

[###KILTEDKIWI###]

On the other hand, I’ve seen Ladies of all ages at Remembrance ceremonies in UK wearing sweetheart brooches of military badges and miniature medals (or sometimes even full size medals) worn on the right hand side and I think that to honour those you love in such a way is truly fitting and shows great respect. My sons wear family related miniature medals on the right side at Remembrance in honour of their Grandfather’s service in WW2 (My Father. He died in 1975) and another relative killed in WW1 (at 3rd Ypres – Passchedale, in 1917). They are not claiming to have been awarded the medals themselves; they are merely honouring those that have passed and a 16 y/o youngster wearing WW1 miniatures? Chances are they’re not his! Wearing them on the right indicates, by convention at least that they are not the wearer’s medals. Sweetheart Brooches and other badges like lapel pins, tie clips, embroidered caps etc are not official either so that's OK in my book too. On occasions of Remembrance and ONLY these occasions, I wear my own, full size medals on the Left

kilts aside, this is previlent here in NZ now on ANZAC Day, where the grandchildren, and or children of men / widows etc, who served in WW2 etc turn out on mass with their decorations; as an ex RNZN stoker, i find it overwhelming and moving that they are there, to not only remember those lost, but what the futility of war does to man. And like you, its the only time i wear my own service decorations.

[Mair of the Tribe of Mar]

Thank you all,

I have definately read differing opinions on the matter, and appreciate all of them!

Jason