On Beer

[bowser]

Traditional beers such as Bitter/Mild/Stout/Old (most people have never heard of old, but it is a traditional beer, ie a pint of "mother in law" half old and half bitter) is what most people refer to as real ale should be served at cellar temp, so called because most pubs kept the beer underground and the temp does not vary from summer to winter (thats how heat pump systems work) as a rough guide the 40-50 f is about right.

Larger beers which includes most of the contential pills are serverd colder.


We have our cellar above ground and on the back of the building, so the bitters are pulled through on a pump and go through a chiller (read big box full of tubes in water, which has been frozen into a block of ice), bitter goes in and comes out, larger goes in and out and then back into another tube and gets chilled twice, for extra cold beers which we dont sell, it will have three trips through the chiller.

Keg beer is not pumped in the same way it is drawn off a tap by gravity or it is pulled up on a beer engine (thats the big leaver pulls you see on proper bar) these are not chilled but in warm weather or in a warm building you use either a water filled blanket called a jacket, or prongs which is a loops of tubing that goes in the vent hole at the top of the barrel, this is fed off a smaller chiller it does not really chill the beer but just drops it a couple of degrees.

The reason is that at cold temps all beer tasts similar, real ales need to be a bit warmer (not hot nor even warm, just warmer than larger beers) in order for the aroma and taste to develop.


Now for anyone REALLY interested in beer then the holly of hollies is this place T brugs beertje, it is a bar in Brugges in Belgium (a country with more beers per head of population than any other in the world), it has been described as the best bar in Europe and probably the best bar in the world, hidden in a side street it is well worth the effort to go and find it, opens at 1600hrs and has a menu not a price list, with beer listed by type Trappist, Dark, Blond, Dubble Tripple, Lambic, fruit etc at last count 400 different all served in a different glass, and ranging from %4 to %16 by volume. Beer drinkers heaven !!!!


http://http://www.brugsbeertje.be/

[O'Callaghan]

The basic distinction has already been covered, i.e. ales (top-fermented) are served cool and lagers (bottom-fermented) are served chilled. The American jibes at 'warm beer' are just that, mild insults that started out as knowingly untrue just to get an annoyed reaction, such as by GIs during WW2, and were repeated by those who didn't know any better.

Getting beer straight from the 'old country' is no guarantee of getting the genuine article. Often you get an 'export' version, which is made with extra hops so you can still taste something when it's been chilled. Probably the best way to avoid it is to buy something from one of the smaller breweries who can't afford to make an export beer especially for people to chill. To be fair, there are plenty of places in the USA that get so hot that there is no chance of having a cool cellar in summer, but most beers will survive in the fridge without unduly spoiling the taste.

[JRB]

One thing not mentioned is that the colder the beer is the more carbonation it holds on to. So, if you drink your beer ice cold, prepare to belch up a storm. The super chilled beer will hold all it's carbonation and then release it all when it hits the hot temperature in your stomach. The result is a bloated belly and a long session of burping. Cellar cool beer, on the other hand, will release much of it's carbonation as the head foam dissipates and, while still being fuizzy, will be much less gassy during digestion.

[CPOBull@Comcast.net]

slainte, comrades

The stouts [Guinness, Beamish, and Murphy's] are actually Porters, Guinness actually being sold at one time as "Guinness Extra Stout Porter". A chracateristic of Porters and English style Ales [nut browns and reds] is that they are usually very Malty, and quite filling. My favorite beer is something so malty that you can take one sip, along with Rosemary pork roast and mashed potatoes and say "...okay, had enough I'm full...". Because of the maltiness there is a high percentage of starches which convert over to much mroe sugar which adds to the sweetness because of the sugars involved in the brewing, occuring naturally, the final product can be served at a somewhat warmer tenperature. That is not to say, "warm", but not "cold" either. Serving a malty beer such as McEwans Sctoch Ale or a Smithwick's [prnc'd Smith'icks] Irish Red Ale or any of the Porters "cold" is to kill the "back" [the taste that you get at the end of the swallow] depriving the drinker of a very pleasant taste sensation . If you want to really kill an absolutely beautiful Porter serve Fuller's "London Style" [a true London Style Porter] Porter ice cold. But take that same Porter and serve it at 50-55 degF. and it blossoms. You can taste the nuttiness and smokiness of the malting. Nowe, all of this goes out the door, when you introduce "Hops" to the equation. Traditionally American beers are German influenced by virtue of their hopiness. The lone exception to the malted beers of the English palate are the ESBs [Extra Special Bitters} and their stepchildren the IPAs[ India Pale Ales] so named for HMs forces in India and other parts of the Empire, most notably the East India Company in India. Hops were added to perserve their shelf and transportation life to other distant parts of the Empire. Now most German beers use the Hollertau hops or some such variant which imparts a very fruity character. A good domestic example on this side of the Atlantic is Leinenkuegel's [out of Wisconson] Oktoberfest, a wonderful fruity beer that is as good as anything brewed under the Rheinheitsgebot of Germany. The IPAs use a Fuggels [or close variants] hop which is very sharp and has a character all of its own, once tasted will instantly be recognized again and gives any of the IPAs their own character. In either case, but most especially in the case of IPA, the hopping is of such a character that the beer can be quite disagreeable in character if served warmer than "cold". IPAs and the Germans are excellent summertime beers and great thirst cutters. I like a cold Bud longneck when served teeth shattering ice cold, you can really taste the beechwood, and Rolling Rock longneck is a dry and light [nothing to do with Alcholic content] beer when served ice cold. But both lose miserably when allowed to warm.
The stouts when served on draft are absolutely unbeatable in flavor and taste. Guinness served on this side comes off rather badly because it generally is served using CO2 as the dreiving medium rather than Nitrogen. Nitrogen is neutral in character as a gas and does not destroy the character and flavor of a stout, remembering that the presencve of Oxygen at any level promotes oxydation. Murphy's stout when served fresh from the barrel is out of this world in flavor, and Beamish stout which has a very distinct coffee back [remember the "swallow"] is as good as it gets without dieing and going to heaven first.. But, remember here we're talking about the difference between Bentleys and Rolls ,"...hey, hey throw that old Bentleyout...!!!!!!!"
I myself am a habitue of a very small microbrewery in the Berkshires [Western Mass, "Kansas with mountains"]. They make only two beers, a true English style nut brown ale [the ancestor of Porter] and what they market as Blackbear stout, which has some small percentage of liquorice in its brewing that you don't pick up until the back [remember the "swallow"!?!?!!!!] Then the old taste buds light right up, Zowie!!!!!!!. This is not beer for the faint hearted or yuppie Muffie or Bryce. Their nutbrown "Barrington Brown" comes in at 6.5% and their Blacklbear Stout at 8% The best thing about their beers is that they are unpasteurized draft beers and can only be bought in the immediate surrounding area. Pasteurization kills the complex character of a beer and it loses flavor in the trade-off for shelf life, shipping and storage.
I HAVE AN OPEN OFFER, ANYONE INTERESTED CONTACT ME GET A GROUP TOGETHER; I HAVE A TIMNE SHARE UP THERE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I'LL BOOK IT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Kilt up, get your pipes we'll go pipe Monument Mountain at sunrise and then retire to the barn [the brewery is actually built in a barn] and sample copiously the fare.


dia duit
Anchor'sAway/Semper Fi
CPO Bull

[Freelancer]

I think the UK "warm beer" manta originates from yanks who drank nothing but your bland Bud and Miller cold lagers and never tasted an ale until their first English pub visit. Years ago, the first time I tasted a proper bitter, it was an eye opener for me. It was great! Not really warm at all and with great flavor! To echo what JRB and DWFII said, there was less carbonation and I never felt one bit of a hangover the next day. Thankfully, the micro brewers have brought flavor back to lagers and ales brewed in the US.

[JRB]

slainte, comrades

...I myself am a habitue of a very small microbrewery in the Berkshires [Western Mass, "Kansas with mountains"]. They make only two beers, a true English style nut brown ale [the ancestor of Porter] and what they market as Blackbear stout...Their nutbrown "Barrington Brown" comes in at 6.5% and their Blacklbear Stout at 8% The best thing about their beers is that they are unpasteurized draft beers and can only be bought in the immediate surrounding area...Kilt up, get your pipes we'll go pipe Monument Mountain at sunrise and then retire to the barn [the brewery is actually built in a barn] and sample copiously the fare.


dia duit
Anchor'sAway/Semper Fi
CPO Bull

You are referring to Barrington Brewery. I love that place. It has fantastic beer, good food and a great atmosphere (yes, in a barn!!!) I live less than an hour from there and make the trek down at least four times a year. They do brew more than two beers now. I think the last time I was there (sometime in August) they offered at least four types of beer. Anyway, it's one of the best microbreweries anywhere. My favorite, however, is The People's Pint in Greenfield, MA. They have an IPA called Pied pIPA that is hoppy enough to curl your toes. Incidentally, both places serve both their cask conditioned brews and draught beers at cool cellar temps.

[Standard]

As everyone knows, God originally intended for beer to be black int:

Ah yes, reminds me of a pretty good stout that I have been having lately called the "Smoked Stout" from Dark Horse. It looks like ink when it is being poured out of the bottle, but has a nice smooth taste, not the bitter sharp bite that you are looking for when you see it being poured. int:

[Mipi]

If the brewer uses bottom fermenting yeast, the result will be a lager. Both Pilsner and Bock are lagers.

True, but temperature must be below 12 deg. C during fermentation, otherwise you'll end up with ale.

int:

[English Bloke]

... this place T brugs beertje, it is a bar in Brugges in Belgium (a country with more beers per head of population than any other in the world)... Beer drinkers heaven !!!!

Bowser Hi.
Fixed your link http://www.brugsbeertje.be/index_en.htm

Great website. I've put it on my Pubs to do list

I bob across to Ieper (Ypres), Belgium fairly often and there are some good Pubs and great beer there too. Belgian Beer isn't all Jupiler and Stella. We should get together sometime and sort out a Belgian sesh! (Mix Kilts into the equation and we're laughin')

[thanmuwa]

Fascinating thread, just a couple of things to add. For our friends across the Atlantic, what you refer to as "warm beers" are the equivalent of the hand-crafted beers you get from the current crop of microbreweries over there. They are called "Real Ales" over here. It is mostly an English phenomenon (although you do see it to some extent in Wales, Northern Ireland and Scotland, probably decreasing in that order). There is even a campaign but I think you need to have a huge beard to join .

The only beer I know of that is intentionally served at room temperature rather than cellar temperature is rare to find these days. If you find a real "old man's pub" in Dublin you can still find served what is called a "soft pint" (ie served at room temperature) of Guinness. You will only find it in certain traditional pubs, none very far away from the Guinness brewery and the Guinness has to be perfect for it to taste good (but when the conditions are right, it is sublime!). Guinness has never travelled well and even in my home town of Athlone, less than 100 miles from Dublin, the Guinness has been disturbed enough by it's journey that a soft pint is not served...

Unfortunately most people these days want to drink hard and fast, and flavour just seems to get in the way, hence the popularity of the flavourless chill-filtered Buds, Fosters ,Tennants etc. And whiskey that goes with coke. Ah well . Still, I now have a pub in Belgium on my to-do list .