black tie, white tie

[FreakPower70]

Ok so, I grew up in a middle class family in a small town in British Columbia and the most dressing up I have ever done was for church on sunday, and this was certainly neither white tie nor black. So I am wondering, what decides whether an event is white tie or black?

FP

[PiobBear]

...what decides whether an event is white tie or black?

Your host.

[bowser]

The nice thing about formal highland dress, is that it is acceptable to wear the same thing at either White or black tie event.

[Dirk Skene]

From my experence with such events, and it is rather extencive (sp): White tie is "ultra" formal. But very, very, very rarely is black tie not accepted when white is called for. Heck, even an audience with the pope is black tie or dark suite. But as mentioned above ... just check with the host.

[auld argonian]

To a certain extent, Wikipedia is your friend:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/White_tie

...interesting that Highland Dress is mentioned in this article, eh?

I recently attended a black tie event where the definition of "black tie" was r-e-a-l-l-y being stretched by a lot of the men. The attitude seemed to be "I have enough money that you certainly can't expect to tell me how to dress...I'll wear what I want and if you don't like it you can just try to make an issue out of it". If I were a cynic I'd say that this was a very good way to tell "new money" from "old money"...

Best

AA

[Highland Logan]

Check out this site The Essential Black Tie Guide, it should answer all of your questions.

Frank

[Highlander31]

The host sets the dress for the occasion. Whether black tie or white tie, when compared to a tuxedo, the kilt is always the more elegant presentation.

[MacMillan of Rathdown]

I recently attended a black tie event where the definition of "black tie" was r-e-a-l-l-y being stretched by a lot of the men. The attitude seemed to be "I have enough money that you certainly can't expect to tell me how to dress...I'll wear what I want and if you don't like it you can just try to make an issue out of it". If I were a cynic I'd say that this was a very good way to tell "new money" from "old money"...

Best

AA

Speaking as someone whose money is so old that it has long since crumbled, turned to dust, and blown away, I would suggest that the people you saw weren't the nouveau riche (which I would love to be), but rather the nouveau "non classe". And, because they can be identified as true vulgarians by the way they dress (to say nothing of a total lack of manners) it is easy to spot them in a crowd, avoid them, and make sure they are not invited back. It's a form of social Darwinism of which I wholly approve.

I was a guest at a rather grand affair in Ireland a few years ago when some vulgarians managed to make it past the gate. The Mother of our host looked out at these people sitting on her lawn (something not done at garden parties) sighed and asked of no one in particular, "What is to be done with these people? Are there no country clubs?"

It's really all about behavior, not money. The biggest and, in my opinion, worst snobs are usually to be found in the middle classes.

[Alan H]

I've been to a lot of what I suppose are called "black tie" affairs. This is because I'm a musician. In the three-plus years I've been wearing kilts I've put on black tie to attend the San Francisco Symphony twice, and it absolutely wasn't necessary. However, it was fun. Aside from that, the only place I've worn black tie is X Marks Burns Night dinners, where it's also not mandatory (just encouraged).

Honestly, why worry about it if you've never been to one and you're unlikely to ever get invited to one? Not that there's anything wrong with being curious and asking, just don't stress over it.

[bowser]

In the days when I had a made to measure dinner suit, I have to say it was great fun watching people turn up and get turned away if they were not correctly dressed for the event.

I remember one particular occasion where one gent turned up in a White "night fever" suit, red shirt and BLACK tie, and was most surprised when he was told that it was not acceptable, he was really upset because the invite said black tie and he had a black tie what was the problem !!!