Waistcoat and belt

[caig]

My Clan Chief ( Alwyne Farquharson) often wears a belt under his waistcoat, and on occasion he wears a SECOND belt over the top of the waistcoat.

I say do what you wish. There are no rules.

[svc40bt]

I quite agree that half a belt showing under the waistcoat is not a good look. I also am considering the buttons on each apron solution for braces that a couple of members suggested. I was hoping to see a couple more photos of folks wearing a belt over a waistcoat as I remember seeing a couple posted here before.

As I said, I am considering making a waistcoat, perhaps from moleskin or microsuede; so I was wondering if I might cut it shorter and straight at the hem to show the entire belt, perhaps with straps to keep it down around the top of the kilt. Any opinions on this look?

[MacMillan of Rathdown]

Let me be blunt and ask if you strap your belt under your gut? If you do, that would explain why you are having problems keeping the kilt in place. The kilt, like trousers, is designed to properly go around your natural waist, not under your tummy. If you are wearing your kilt around your waist (and by this I mean with the top of the kilt pretty much parallel with the floor), and you are still having slippage problems, then you need to wear braces to hold it in place (assuming, of course that the kilt is properly tailored, and fits).

Braces for kilts need to be fairly wide, at least and inch and a quarter in my experience. You will have to install six buttons on your kilt, and these should be placed as follows: two centered on the back, preferably inside the waistband about two inches apart and one inch below the top of the kilt; the other four go on the inside flap of the kilt, roughly in line with your nipples. These should be spaced the same as the two in the back, ie: an inch down and about two inches apart. The buttons need to be on the outside of the inner flap for two reasons: (1) they will need to be "backed" or reinforced on the opposite side of the flap to take the strain; (2) they are easier to "do up" if they are on the outside of the flap.

Like Jamie, McMurdo, and others have said, a belt isn't worn with a waistcoat, so if I were you I'd skip it, especially if you have a tendency to fasten it under your gut as this only accentuates the size of your tummy. Big time.

The danger of a flat bottomed waistcoat is that unless it is cut with sufficient length your shirt will have a tendency to show through the gaps as you walk, bend, or sit. This is more apt to occur with large men than with those of average or slender builds.

As posted elsewhere (and often):

I say do what you wish. There are no rules.

Sorry, but I'd have to disagree-- rules exist to prevent people from making mistakes. To suggest that someone "ignore the rules" is to ignore the consequences of that advise. To tell anyone to "do as they wish as there are no rules" is, in my opinion, bad advice.

[svc40bt]

Let me be blunt and ask if you strap your belt under your gut? If you do, that would explain why you are having problems keeping the kilt in place. The kilt, like trousers, is designed to properly go around your natural waist, not under your tummy. If you are wearing your kilt around your waist (and by this I mean with the top of the kilt pretty much parallel with the floor), and you are still having slippage problems, then you need to wear braces to hold it in place (assuming, of course that the kilt is properly tailored, and fits).

Braces for kilts need to be fairly wide, at least and inch and a quarter in my experience. You will have to install six buttons on your kilt, and these should be placed as follows: two centered on the back, preferably inside the waistband about two inches apart and one inch below the top of the kilt; the other four go on the inside flap of the kilt, roughly in line with your nipples. These should be spaced the same as the two in the back, ie: an inch down and about two inches apart. The buttons need to be on the outside of the inner flap for two reasons: (1) they will need to be "backed" or reinforced on the opposite side of the flap to take the strain; (2) they are easier to "do up" if they are on the outside of the flap.

Like Jamie, McMurdo, and others have said, a belt isn't worn with a waistcoat, so if I were you I'd skip it, especially if you have a tendency to fasten it under your gut as this only accentuates the size of your tummy. Big time.

The danger of a flat bottomed waistcoat is that unless it is cut with sufficient length your shirt will have a tendency to show through the gaps as you walk, bend, or sit. This is more apt to occur with large men than with those of average or slender builds.

As posted elsewhere (and often):

I say do what you wish. There are no rules.

Sorry, but I'd have to disagree-- rules exist to prevent people from making mistakes. To suggest that someone "ignore the rules" is to ignore the consequences of that advise. To tell anyone to "do as they wish as there are no rules" is, in my opinion, bad advice.

Please feel free to be blunt. The answer is no, I wear it around my waist, 1-2" above the navel. Trousers about 1" below the navel. Things want to slide down to the hip bones and under the gut. The broad belt helps, but either kilt or trousers require an occasional adjustment.

Braces are better at keeping things at the right level, but I like the look of the stout belt with the kilt, and it serves the additional practical purpose of providing someplace to mount my cell phone holster and work id holder.

In the end I probably will never get around to making a waistcoat, but you never know.

[Phil]

There are commercially available waistcoat patterns - my wife made me one which I have posted photos of previously. It is a high-buttoned design unlike the PC waistcoat and it is not usual to wear a belt over it. There are, of course, exceptions to every rule such as the gentleman clad in tartan from head to toe pictured earlier. I'm not sure that is the best example of highland dress however.

[caig]

I say again - there are no rules. Wearing a kilt is not the same as putting on a military (or other orgaisation such as a pipe band) uniform, where the wearer has to conform to some rules. There is no reason at all why someone should not wear a kilt in an individual way - whether that is against what might be seen as a social practice, or not. As my original post stated - just look at my Clan Chief (and he should know !).

[MacMillan of Rathdown]

I say again - there are no rules. Wearing a kilt is not the same as putting on a military (or other orgaisation such as a pipe band) uniform, where the wearer has to conform to some rules. There is no reason at all why someone should not wear a kilt in an individual way - whether that is against what might be seen as a social practice, or not. As my original post stated - just look at my Clan Chief (and he should know !).

I think you are wrong here.

I don't think citing a single individual (chief or not) sets the acceptable standard of highland dress. While one is free to express individuality in wearing the kilt (as your Chief has done, and by the way he knows the rules), there are rules-- FOR EXAMPLE: Pleats are worn across the back of the kilt, not the front.

Now I am as willing as the next man to laugh at some poor bugger who has made a complete *** of himself with his kilt down to his ankles, sporran across his butt, and pleats to the front -- IF he knew that that's not how the kilt is worn. On the other hand, if he was dressed like a refugee from a stranded roadshow company of Brigadoon because he didn't know the rules, I wouldn't laugh I'd try to set him straight on how to wear the kilt. I'd tell him the "rules" so folks wouldn't laugh at him behind his back.

Like I've said before, telling someone that there are "no rules" is giving them bad advice. I'd put it on a par with tossing a 16-year old the keys to the car without first making sure he knew the rules of the road. It might work out okay, but then again, it might not.

There are rules. Once you know every single one of them, then you can begin to experiment. Not before.

[DWFII]

[snip]There are rules. Once you know every single one of them, then you can begin to experiment. Not before.

I sure like the way you think. I agree with you 100%.

[JSFMACLJR]

There are, of course, exceptions to every rule such as the gentleman clad in tartan from head to toe pictured earlier. I'm not sure that is the best example of highland dress however.

What makes you come to this conclusion?

Kind regards,
Sandford