A new type of lowlife...kilt related

[Cavebear58]

So let me get this right...

Someone has attended a public festival and has taken a photograph of one of your products. They have then photoshopped it, so even you had difficulty recognising it as your own item. They have then used this photograph to portray goods that they are having produced somewhere else, which they are selling at a fraction of the price of your own goods.

They have not grabbed the picture from your website.

Nappa leather is a term that has been in use since 1921 if not earlier (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nappa_leather). It is a high quality leather renowned for softness and durability and is often used for car upholstery - because of its longevity.

If this character is known as Isaac, and I've seen the right ebay listing, then he hasn't claimed that the picture is actually the garment he is selling - nor has he disclaimed this either. He is not claiming that this is one of your products.

If I am understanding right, then I don't see what he has done that is wrong? Bit lazy, maybe, but wrong?

Unless he has actually produced an item that is clearly intended to look like one of your design protected* garments and endeavoured to pass it off as such then has he broken the law in the US?

* They ARE design protected, I trust?

Without seeing the real thing, which may not look anything like yours, I don't understand what his crime is?

Are people going to look at his product and say; "Hey that's one of rkilts garments going at a cheap price?" Maybe to an afficianado, but otherwise?

Sorry, imitation is the sincerest form of flattery, but if he is able to produce these with genuine nappa leather at $129 perhaps the question to be asking yourself is HOW and whether you can learn from him, as he's obviously found a good source of cheap leather tailoring.

I'd love to join the lynching party, but I have a feeling you need to change the law first before you take it into your own hands.

Best wishes, Graham.

[starbkjrus]

Never Mind

[ccga3359]

Illegal? Yes, he is misrepresenting his product. RKilts are unique (protected or not, I do not know) and easily recognizable to those of us that have seen (and own) them. For me to purchase from this person expecting to get what is pictured either I get a direct copy of an RKilt which is as I said - a unique design, or I get a completely looking kilt. By displaying that picture the recieved product would be paramount to fraud, clear cut. Graham, lets say I'm selling you a Reliant Robin sight unseen, I show you a picture from the factory archives of a gorgeous yellow model, yet when you receive it here is what you get:



Have I not just commited it fraud? It's what you ordered.
PS. the crankcase is filled with sawdust to eliminate the engine knocking, enjoy your new "Babe-magnet".

[sathor]

Wow, I like that car. It is a car, right? Or is it some kind of boat? Still, I like.

[SteveB]

Robert,
I feel for you in many ways. There have been many threads and many posts here on X-marks about the "Designed in Scotland" kilts from such vendors as "Heritage of Scotland" all of which come down to Certified Real Atrocios Products. These are poorly made knock offs of tartan kilts.
These same Pakistani businesses have invaded other areas with their fraud. I am a student of the Great Highland Bagpipes. I searched for a practice chanter that would be of superior quality, that would last me the rest of my life. There are known several very reputable Pipe makers in Scotland and In Canada. The advert was for one made by a very reputable maker in Scotland. The product I received was packaged with very well forged emblems of this maker and the packaging was an exact copy of this company's work. The instrument was poorly made and did not have any of the supposed makers areas of quality. It was another Pakistani forgery.
I have learned my expensive lesson. I deal directly with the maker of the product I am after. I have since purchased a chanter directly from this pipe maker, and am delighted with the quality and performance. I also purchased a second chanter directly from a pipe maker in Canada that is also to my delight.
I hope today that most people would use the internet to find the real source of their desired product and go direct, thereby shorting out the possibility of getting one of these frauds. If my desire is for an R-kilt, it will be to you that the order is placed. When it comes to kilts, a reseller can not match the result of a custom bespoke kilt..Period.
I hope that you can persuade your neighbour to stop the charade. If not, I propose that we get as many X-Markers as possible to take a vacation in beautiful Ontario Province. That we take many scenic walks in his community kilted in quality kilts. Should we find the residence of this person, we should bring together all the Pipers and all the Drummers that we can find. "and bring the pipes together by the rising of the moon."

[ccga3359]

Wow, I like that car. It is a car, right? Or is it some kind of boat? Still, I like.

It is a car a 3 wheeler, a Reliant Robin but my all time fav was the Bond Bug 3.

[Canuck]

So let me get this right...

Someone has attended a public festival and has taken a photograph of one of your products. They have then photoshopped it, so even you had difficulty recognising it as your own item. They have then used this photograph to portray goods that they are having produced somewhere else, which they are selling at a fraction of the price of your own goods. Imagine all the money I could make doing that. I'm too blonde

They have not grabbed the picture from your website.

Nappa leather is a term that has been in use since 1921 if not earlier (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nappa_leather). It is a high quality leather renowned for softness and durability and is often used for car upholstery - because of its longevity.

If this character is known as Isaac, and I've seen the right ebay listing, then he hasn't claimed that the picture is actually the garment he is selling - nor has he disclaimed this either. He is not claiming that this is one of your products.

If I am understanding right, then I don't see what he has done that is wrong? Bit lazy, maybe, but wrong?

Unless he has actually produced an item that is clearly intended to look like one of your design protected* garments and endeavoured to pass it off as such then has he broken the law in the US?

* They ARE design protected, I trust?

Without seeing the real thing, which may not look anything like yours, I don't understand what his crime is?

Are people going to look at his product and say; "Hey that's one of rkilts garments going at a cheap price?" Maybe to an afficianado, but otherwise?

Sorry, imitation is the sincerest form of flattery, but if he is able to produce these with genuine nappa leather at $129 perhaps the question to be asking yourself is HOW and whether you can learn from him, as he's obviously found a good source of cheap leather tailoring.

I'd love to join the lynching party, but I have a feeling you need to change the law first before you take it into your own hands.

Best wishes, Graham.

Graham I recognized the kilt right away. They photoshopped the hanger and person holding the kilt out of the picture.
By posting that picture he is implying to you the consumer that this is the garment you are getting to the last detail
Using my ebay account I asked the seller a question. I asked if the kilt pictured is the one I would get. He replied yes.
Yes I have the design registered in Canada as for the U.S. that's a different ballgame and different laws
I referred him to the website to illustrate that the pictures of the kilts are the same design.
No they haven't taken the picture from my website. They walked into my store space and took a picture of my product. They didn't buy it then take it home and take a picture of it.

Yes I should take up the many offers from the offshore companies and have them make my design of kilt and sell them. What am I thinking! I'm crazy spending hours sewing a tailored garment when I could get some other person to do it for pennies. Heck wouldn't have to spend time with a customer, show them how their kilt is going to be made. Wouldn't have to hand pick the hides myself. I could use the nappa leather that has been refinished a number of times.

So why is it my nose is out of joint? I just wonder why they can't take a picture of their own product and post it? It's what I do. It's what most of the merchants you value here do.


As for the lynching....hmm don't think so

Isaac has a right to do business, that's cool, it would be nice if he were ethical.....

As to the Pakistani Company that are using photos of my product I'm in contact with them and they are dealing with it.

In the grand scheme of things there are better things to worry about, like waking up tomorrow

[Cavebear58]

Using my ebay account I asked the seller a question. I asked if the kilt pictured is the one I would get. He replied yes...

Yes I have the design registered in Canada as for the U.S. that's a different ballgame and different laws....

Yes I should take up the many offers from the offshore companies and have them make my design of kilt and sell them. What am I thinking! I'm crazy spending hours sewing a tailored garment when I could get some other person to do it for pennies. Heck wouldn't have to spend time with a customer, show them how their kilt is going to be made. Wouldn't have to hand pick the hides myself. I could use the nappa leather that has been refinished a number of times....

So why is it my nose is out of joint? I just wonder why they can't take a picture of their own product and post it? It's what I do. It's what most of the merchants you value here do....

Thanks Ron.

I do see where you are coming from. It certainly seems unbelievably odd to go to the trouble of visiting you, photographing the kilt, presumably copying the design, commissioning products, etc, only to THEN use the original photograph rather than taking one of his own product.

In your original post, I didn't see the bit that he had said this was THE item that you were going to win if you bid for it. eBay is a bit odd for this - i've often seen kiltie bits that are described as "this is the one you'll get" and then seen that they have multiple items for sale! Given that he has said that, I TOTALLY agree that he is breaking eBay's rules.

I'm glad that you have the design registered. In my work we deal only in ideas and I have to smile when I see the antics folks get up to 'protecting' something quite trivial. I have become quite blase about it - I realise that the same isn't true in manufacturing.

I don't know who the North American equivalents would be, but in the UK at some stage, Messrs Marks, Spencer, Burton, and a host of others had to decide whether to continue to measure men for suits and to maintain a room of tailors and seamstresses or to 'outsource' production. I don't hold it against a company for doing so, provided that certain human rights are maintained. In some cases, I'm afraid, I've come across bespoke hand tailored suits that have been poorer quality than those made somewhere in the developing nations. I don't think you can even say that "what you get is what you pay for".

For some reason, the kilt industry seems to do an enormous amount of photographic copying. I mentioned it a couple of says ago in a post. I even saw the same photo being used to ilustrate one of the c.r.a.p. kilts and one of the "Our kilts are far superior than the c.r.a.p. ones" kilts. Sadly, the latter was on the website of one of the XMarks members sites!

As you say, there's bigger issues. I wonder what you could take from this experience that would help your own business step into another league (if you felt inclined to do so)?

All the best, Graham.

[Canuck]

Thanks Ron.

snip.....
As you say, there's bigger issues. I wonder what you could take from this experience that would help your own business step into another league (if you felt inclined to do so)?

All the best, Graham.

I guess for one, discourage a person from taking a picture of the product in my retail space and offer them a business card that directs them to the website that has photo's that are watermarked and copyrighted.
Maintain my code of conduct and ethics. other companies come and go, the marketplace will determine to the extent they are successful or not.
Cheers
Robert

[sathor]

I guess for one, discourage a person from taking a picture of the product in my retail space and offer them a business card that directs them to the website that has photo's that are watermarked and copyrighted.
Maintain my code of conduct and ethics. other companies come and go, the marketplace will determine to the extent they are successful or not.
Cheers
Robert

Make the tags more prominent, in a special shape? I do find it odd that the seller had a perfect rating, seems, well, odd.