How should XMTS grow and improve?

[sathor]

http://www.xmarksthescot.com/forum/u...x.html?t=28856

I think the fact that so many people (not just sathor) have questions about things that ARE already in the tutorials section speaks to the fact that perhaps they aren't 'visible enough' or easy enough to find... or maybe people just aren't looking.

There's a tutorial section? (and the posted method does seem easier than what I was doing.)

Maybe they should be easier to find. I just spent a few minutes trying to find them, just to realize they are a forum header. dang hiding in plain sight. Though I didn't see one with the 'lean back not forward when sitting' answer

[Weasel Mender]

Oh, I wholeheartedly agree, and those types of discussions have no place here. Policing this may be more work than it's worth, but it might be nice to give it a go and see if the membership can keep the discussion to what is appropriate.

Let me put a point on this issue then move on. I went to the mods with a request to post a thread on a kilted bowhunt focusing on elk, they said have at it, we did , no muss no fuss no bother I have seen threads in the same area on kilted shooting attire etc. We have here an area that we can go and know that good taste and civility will rule (
along with yelling at each other putting tacks on each others chairs whilst we are standing upright to make sure weare heard) people have been told to "stand in the corner and be quiet" by the mods, I have been myself I "stood and shut" others did not and are gone, what I am saying is... here we are a group of "Gentlemen and Ladies"and expected to behave like it a rare thing indeed

Weasel

[sydnie7]

[snip] BTW... when it comes to chairs I have some words of wisdon to impart: Hot leather car seats and cold metal bleachers are NOT your friend.

[threadjack] C'mon, cowboy up, and welcome to the world that women have inhabited for quite some time now! [/threadjack]

On topic: I was overwhelmed by the size of forum at first. Then I discovered the "New Post" feature and use it almost exclusively as my portal into the forum. However, that portal does make me forget (if I ever knew) about things such as tutorials -- until or unless there is a new post to one. And some of the useful functions are hidden under the "Quick Links" menu name, which to me is misleading -- "links" to me are URLs outside of the current site.

I have the time and doggedness to search and find what I need here. Others may be put off by the sheer scope. I agree that we need some more friendly entry into the vast halls of XMTS.

[Bugbear]

Never mind my earlier suggestion about making a sub-forum for threads on the social groups. It isn't needed because a link posted in a thread of the topic works just fine. Wasn't sure you could link to that part of the forum out here in the rest of the forum.

[DWFII]

This is gonna come out of left field...or so it may seem. But actually it is a response to Jamie's post in another thread where he suggested that remarks made in the vein I am about to take, be made here.

So...

I do hope that discussions involving Traditional Highland Attire will not be further sub-divided.

A point...there are any number of people on this forum who...maybe because they are narrow-minded; maybe because they are naturally conservative; maybe because they come from a different culture than is prevalent here; maybe because they are older and like things the way they are and were (and I am one of them) who feel a greater attraction, comfort level, perhaps even "loyalty" to Traditional modes of dress and/or a more ordered set of conventions than perhaps others do.

Most of these people accept that others do not agree with them and they do not seek to actively impose their values on anyone else. For instance, I never post in the "Contemporary Kilts' forum. I wouldn't dream of trying to interpret or define what those who like contemporary kilts should be or how they see themselves.

In the same spirit...I do hope the mods will allow those of us who do gravitate towards more traditional conventions to define ourselves. For instance, I would feel constrained and hemmed in if the mods decided to create a sub-forum such as, say...Classic Highland Attire circa 1880-1960. It's too limiting and the question would always be whether those that imposed such limitations really understood the spirit of those they were seeking to define.

I don't think that it would be constructive or even handed.

That's my opinion. I offer it with respect and humility.

[Panache]

...Classic Highland Attire circa 1880-1960. It's too limiting and the question would always be whether those that imposed such limitations really understood the spirit of those they were seeking to define.

I don't think that it would be constructive or even handed.

DWFII,

As the one who threw that out the thought, let me explain where I was coming from.

The idea would be to allow those traditionalists that will not accept some modern highland attire conventions a place where the subject wouldn't come up. White hose as formal wear has been around for years, but I doubt it is pre-1960.

I appear to have completely failed in my attempts to try to show that there are actually two sets of conventions in highland formal wear today and that there is a place for both here at XMTS and out and about.

This is why I proposed the sub section. If it would kill debate and discussion, or not prove helpful then it is a bad idea. This is a brain storming session to make the forum better. My ideas are just as good or just as bad as any other member here.

I do think that we have a fair number of historical re-enactors here that might appreciate an area for Historical Attire.

Cheers

Jamie

[Highland Logan]

I’ve been reading this and the other tread regarding the correct time to wear a PC with interest. There seems to be a growing rift between the so-called traditionalist, and those with for lack of a better word, a modern flare. Like many of those in the traditionalist camp, I could care less how or what a person wares... but up to a point. If I attend a formal event, I expect the other attendees to dress appropriately. This honours the host, their companion, but also those else in attendance. Now to get to this “classic” stuff. The last I checked a style of dress was not a re-branding of Coca-Cola.

A dinner jacket is a dinner jacket. The how and when to wear such a thing is a matter of fact, not some smug off handed “I like it with sneakers” (fictional example). There seemed to be talk of putting a time-line (1960) on this “classic” look as though it had passed away and we all missed the wake and forgot to send flowers.

White hose seemed to be bandied around as an example of what the new “tradition” looks like. I would counter that a fad, fashion (white hose) if you well is an ever-changing thing, and the correct way, the traditional way is a constant. It is a place that with education and some savings men who reach maturity well find themselves. Has the recent trend on this board been missed? As soon as some of our members have educated themselves on proper dress, and saved up some coin, they have all gone out and purchased argyle (tartan) dress hose... White hose indeed!

We’ve all seen badly dressed Hollywood stars with some funky tux on the red carpet. That is not a new style, it’s not traditional, it’s not the start of a new tradition it’s a fad. We all remember the 70’s, and for those a little younger the 80’s, hell even the 90’s were a tad off at times. Did much of these clothing fads last? No they did not.

Fads come and go, but real tradition lasts. The traditional way to wear Scottish National dress did not die in 1960, it lives on today, and no doubt well out live us all.

Now it seems to me that whenever someone asks a question regarding proper dress, and one of the traditionalist speak-up they are quickly shot down with the likes of “wear it however you want”, “there’s no rules” and “what are the kilt police going to do”. And I read all the time that if I place importance on dress convention, then I must be a snob (read between the lines of many posters).

Now I don’t muscle in of the utila-kilt treads; I’m sure you can imagine my thoughts on that topic. So why do those who don’t care about convention try to rip apart the traditionalist when answering questions of a traditional nature?

In short, this board could use a good overhaul. And if my ramblings say anything, it’s that it can be frustrating.

Frank

[Rex_Tremende]

In short, this board could use a good overhaul. And if my ramblings say anything, it’s that it can be frustrating.

So, what would you suggest would be an improvement?

Regards,
Rex.

[DWFII]

DWFII,

As the one who threw that out the thought, let me explain where I was coming from.

The idea would be to allow those traditionalists that will not accept some modern highland attire conventions a place where the subject wouldn't come up. White hose as formal wear has been around for years, but I doubt it is pre-1960.

I appear to have completely failed in my attempts to try to show that there are actually two sets of conventions in highland formal wear today and that there is a place for both here at XMTS and out and about.

This is why I proposed the sub section. If it would kill debate and discussion, or not prove helpful then it is a bad idea. This is a brain storming session to make the forum better. My ideas are just as good or just as bad as any other member here.

I do think that we have a fair number of historical re-enactors here that might appreciate an area for Historical Attire.

Cheers

Jamie

Forgive me but I would not question your motives in any regard. I've seen too many of your posts (and read them carefully) to doubt your generosity of spirit.

That said, don't you think Xmarks is already divided, or sub-divided as much as it can be? Or needs to be? And still retain a feeling of cameradie?

General Kilt Talk functions nicely as a meeting ground for all persuasions. Sometimes that seems to cause friction but nothing really drastic; and a little heat is always better than cold. Such heat is, in the most fundamental sense, a form of energy that may be the motivating impulse for all the rest. General Kilt Talk is a fora in the old sense of the word--a marketplace of ideas.

There is a section for discussion of tartans and heraldry. And one to discuss accessories and DIY projects. Etc..

There is a sub-forum for Contemporary and Non-traditional Kilts. Just in the description, that covers quite a lot of ground, don't you think? One might even expect to find people posting there who are perhaps more comfortable with flat caps and white hose ...and pushing the envelope, so to speak.

If there was a focused forum for history buffs, dealing with the time period before the late 18th century, it might prove useful and probably always interesting to some of us. On the other hand, it might draw off some of that energy that is now distributed among other forums. Who knows? But it might also be a tinder box if people don't understand that history is, as someone in another thread said, indeed set in stone--historical events do not evolve.

For me, Traditional Kilts says it all. It doesn't need parsing or translation. The very title, in all its implied permutations, embraces the values I am most comfortable with and I would suspect that even Jacobites or re-enactors (if they did their due diligence) would find a home there, if they so desired.

I run an Internet forum myself...one that has been on the Internet for over ten years--a virtual aeon in Internet time. And I have been posting to forum since before the Internet was open to the casual user.

I tell you this because I have always thought that Xmarks was particularly well thought out. That whoever laid the foundation and created the categories that now exist was especially thoughtful and foresightful (is that a word?).

I think if people just understand that when they post in the DIY forum, for example, the discussions and the bias to be found there is always gonna favour hands-on, perhaps even somewhat less than commercially perfect, projects.

Or, if they post in the proposed History forum, they gonna have to leave Tolkien behind. Und so weiter...

Again, I didn't intend to question your motives or the sincerity that you bring to making Xmarks a better place. And I apologize if my post came off that way.

[Highland Logan]

So, what would you suggest would be an improvement?

Regards,
Rex.

To be fair Rex, I just don't know. I hope that whatever changes, if any are made, that they would be fair to all, and maybe some can better learn to get along with others. If a question is asked, and you have nothing better to add and your 2 cents well just start a fight... maybe the Mods need to dertermin if the question has been answered to the intend of the questioner, and lock it down.

Frank