Bagpipes??

[Mr. Woolery]

Nighthawk, considering how many different (non-celtic) cultures play or played the pipes, why do you say the Celts invented them?

In actual fact, they may (as some claim) be north-African in origin, or possibly near-Asian. There's room to argue for both, more than there really is for Celts.

I personally think the association of pipers with St. Patrick's Day (no matter where he's from originally, he is still the patron saint of Ireland and the first Bishop of Ireland) has to do with the fact that marching uillean pipers just don't look or sound that great. If you want to have a parade, you need to make it interesting for the audience. Scottish pipes are closer to being an Irish thing (same general part of the world, after all - and a share in the persecuted feel of living next door to England) than most marching bands.

There are also Irish pipe bands playing GHBs or Irish Warpipes (just a GHB with one tenor drone removed) and that might lead to a certain difficulty in telling the cultural aspect of GHBs apart from Irish life. Then, you can also find a lot of associations in popular cultural impressions of Ireland. (Scottish pipes show up in Darby O'Gill and the Little People and also in The Quiet Man, which a lot of folks love to watch around today. I actually own both and love them both.)

Anyway, that's my take on it.

-Patrick

[Nighthawk]

Nighthawk, considering how many different (non-celtic) cultures play or played the pipes, why do you say the Celts invented them?

In actual fact, they may (as some claim) be north-African in origin, or possibly near-Asian. There's room to argue for both, more than there really is for Celts.

I personally think the association of pipers with St. Patrick's Day (no matter where he's from originally, he is still the patron saint of Ireland and the first Bishop of Ireland) has to do with the fact that marching uillean pipers just don't look or sound that great. If you want to have a parade, you need to make it interesting for the audience. Scottish pipes are closer to being an Irish thing (same general part of the world, after all - and a share in the persecuted feel of living next door to England) than most marching bands.

There are also Irish pipe bands playing GHBs or Irish Warpipes (just a GHB with one tenor drone removed) and that might lead to a certain difficulty in telling the cultural aspect of GHBs apart from Irish life. Then, you can also find a lot of associations in popular cultural impressions of Ireland. (Scottish pipes show up in Darby O'Gill and the Little People and also in The Quiet Man, which a lot of folks love to watch around today. I actually own both and love them both.)

Anyway, that's my take on it.

-Patrick

There is serious, strong Indian influence in the Celtic culture. I guess perhaps "invented" is too exclusive a word. The pipes were invented in continental Europe. At least, what we recognize as bagpipe type instruments. The Celts took influence from every society they came across, and were spread all over- not just in Europe (Gaul) but also in the Middle East, Near East, Africa. The Celts built roads before the Romans. I know this flies in the face of conventional wisdom, but according to the sources cited in the book A Brief History of the Druids, there is new evidence to support it. The Celts may not have invented bagpipes- I apologise for the use of that word- but they certainly brought it to continental Europe.

[raibeart_dubh]

I agree with the police and fire department pipe bands assessment and also I believe I read on here somewhere that St. Patrick's mother was a Scot. Besides, there are great pipe bands from all over the world and I rather enjoy hearing them no matter the occasion, whether it be a holiday of Irish origin or just because.

[BroosterB1]

Ah. brother Hawk, according to my Ya-fu, the pipes were first seen in the tombs of Egypt. This of course means that nobody really knows how old they really are. Suffice to say the pipes are one really old instrument, there should be no wonder why they stir the soul as they do.

The Romans used the pipes to signal their infantry, and there is good information that Phillip of Macedonia did the same. As the Celts were moving from Hindo-Eurasia to the Alps they certainly were exposed to the pipes, and when pushed farther north they carried them (the pipes) with them.

Our spiritual fore-fathers (druids) would have been familiar with the pipes, whether from their own use, or from others. The ancient world was a lot more connected than we want to believe. You are correct in the assertion that the Celts paved roads; where do you think the Romans got the idea?

At one time the Romans had two big problems; the Celts and the Carthaginians. the bigger and more dangerous of which had elephants. They fought delaying wars with the first and direct ones with the second, by the time that they turned their attention to the Celts, they (the Celts)had moved north.

The biggest difference between the Celts and the Romans was the one of adaptation to local culture vs. imposition of foreign culture. The Romans built cities, roads and baths, the Celts blended into the culture of the area, adopting and adapting to the local.

As a result of all this, Celtic heritage is still with us, pure Roman has been relegated into the history books. Of course, this is just my opinion on the subject, but the pipes? Of course, to stir men's souls and raise the temperature of the blood, there is nothing like the pipes to evoke those memories past....ith: