Why all the negative comments on Flat Caps?

[Detroitpete]

I only wear a flat cap when I have a pint in my hand



WOW I seem to wear that hat rather often.
;-)

[Zardoz]

Personally, I think that there is such a drumbeat from the "traditionalist community" as it were, that the Glengarry and the Balmoral are only the two appropriate hats for kilt wear, and one of them is mostly for pipe bands, that guys just don't know what to wear sometimes!

The hat deal has been beat to death on this forum, and I really feel the topic causes a big quandary in many minds. A lot of guys are so worried about it they would rather go bare headed, even in the sun or cold, than chance offending the local kilt police with "inappropriate" headgear.

My bottom line is, I don't really have the desire to own a Balmoral or a Glengarry, as a person of primarily Irish heritage they don't have much cultural resonance with me. But I'm bald, and I do like to keep covered outdoors. So I mostly wear a flatcap.

Wear what you want, wear it with pride, confidence, class and style and no one can question it!

[macwilkin]

Post deleted.

[Zardoz]

Respectfully, aren't you being a little unfair to those of us who are traditionalists?

Whilst wearing a flat cap with Highland attire really isn't my style, I'm not going to tell someone they're wrong for doing so. If they ask my opinion on the matter, then I will tell them, but in a respectful way.

But to tell you the truth, I personally find the term "kilt police" offensive.

Regards,

Todd

Well honestly, As someone who is pretty much a full time kiltie I consider myself a traditionalist for the most part, but I also think that clothing and personal styles do evolve and adapt over time. I think anyone who sees me out and about, or in the photos I put on our forum, might agree that while I do have my own take on it, I try to adhere to most conventions of "traditional" modern highland dress. But for the reasons I've stated, I do not agree that the glengarry or balmoral are the only permissible covers for everyone.

The original poster, who likes his flatcaps, seemed pretty concerned that he was making some kind of real mistake for wearing one. And if you puruse the lengthy flatcap thread we had a while ago there are some who would tell him flat out he is wrong for wearing one with his kilt.

Todd, I apologise if I've offended you or anyone with the "kilt police" remark, that term should really only be applied to the uninformed (generally pants wearing) tartan experts we have to deal with in public.

[O'Callaghan]

Personally, I think that there is such a drumbeat from the "traditionalist community" as it were, that the Glengarry and the Balmoral are only the two appropriate hats for kilt wear, and one of them is mostly for pipe bands, that guys just don't know what to wear sometimes!

The hat deal has been beat to death on this forum, and I really feel the topic causes a big quandary in many minds. A lot of guys are so worried about it they would rather go bare headed, even in the sun or cold, than chance offending the local kilt police with "inappropriate" headgear.

My bottom line is, I don't really have the desire to own a Balmoral or a Glengarry, as a person of primarily Irish heritage they don't have much cultural resonance with me. But I'm bald, and I do like to keep covered outdoors. So I mostly wear a flatcap.

Wear what you want, wear it with pride, confidence, class and style and no one can question it!

I agree. I do have a caubeen, but it feels a bit like fancy dress to me, plus they had pretty much died out as everyday wear by the time kilts were introduced to Ireland, although of course there are pipe bands that wear the two together anyway and don't care if it's an anachronism.

It's mostly those Scottish fellers that seem to care about this sort of thing.

I generally do go bare headed anyway, but that's alright for me to say when I have all my hair. Go ahead and wear your flat cap. Of course, they are really more English, but then you don't have to be a cowboy to wear jeans, so why worry.

I should post a pic of me in the bright green flat cap I got for a laugh for St. Patrick's day. Preferably with a tartan kilt and no sporran (SK with pockets!). There are some here who would get apoplectic! My green flat cap really is a very, very bright shade of green, and it's just felt, so it was never designed for serious wear, just a bit of St. Patrick's Day foolishness.

[M. A. C. Newsome]

My bottom line is, I don't really have the desire to own a Balmoral or a Glengarry, as a person of primarily Irish heritage they don't have much cultural resonance with me. But I'm bald, and I do like to keep covered outdoors. So I mostly wear a flatcap.

I noticed when this debate was raging the first time that, almost without exception, those who thought the flat cap looked ok with the kilt were from North America, while those who thought it a no-no were from the UK.

The flat-cap, it seems, has different cultural connotations on either side of the Atlantic. Nothing wrong with that.

But I did find your above remark about Scottish caps not resonating with you because your heritage is Irish.... um... but isn't that a kilt you are wearing in the photo?

I don't understand why, as a person of Irish heritage, you would feel uncomfortable in a Scottish cap, yet perfectly comfortable wearing the Scottish kilt.

I'm not saying you must wear a Balmoral or Glengarry -- not that at all. If you don't like them you don't like them. I'm just confused by your reasoning.

[Scotus]

and one of them is mostly for pipe bands

I really like the glengarry and am not in a pipe band. It is not "mostly for" wearing by pipers. Anyone who wants to wear one can wear one. As for "kilt police," it seems that you're making your own rules about what cap people can wear too. I'm not taking offense at this. You have a right to your opinion. I just thought the irony should be pointed out.

Matt, a brilliant point, as usual. Your comment about Scottish vs. Irish doesn't make sense, Zardok, since you're wearing a kilt, which is Scottish.

[O'Callaghan]

I noticed when this debate was raging the first time that, almost without exception, those who thought the flat cap looked ok with the kilt were from North America, while those who thought it a no-no were from the UK.

The flat-cap, it seems, has different cultural connotations on either side of the Atlantic. Nothing wrong with that.

But I did find your above remark about Scottish caps not resonating with you because your heritage is Irish.... um... but isn't that a kilt you are wearing in the photo?

I don't understand why, as a person of Irish heritage, you would feel uncomfortable in a Scottish cap, yet perfectly comfortable wearing the Scottish kilt.

I'm not saying you must wear a Balmoral or Glengarry -- not that at all. If you don't like them you don't like them. I'm just confused by your reasoning.

The balmoral/tam/blue bonnet is/are only worn to represent Scottish heritage, probably because the Irish have the very similar caubeen instead. Why would someone of Irish descent wear a Scottish version of the hat that was probably derived from the caubeen? The kilt has a century plus of history in Ireland (but I'm sure you knew that). However, everyone concedes that Scots wore the kilt first, and that cowboys wore jeans first. Being neither a Scot nor a cowboy, I'm about as likely to wear a ten gallon hat with my jeans as a balmoral with my kilt. Not very.

The Irish Air Corps currently wear blue glengarries and the Irish National Army field green ones, to match their respective uniforms, and I'm not just referring to pipers, although in fact the army pipers wear a black caubeen with saffron ribbons and green hackle instead. The glengarry derives AFAIK from an English military forage cap by way of the Highland Scots regiments. Many regard it as a military/pipers' hat, and I would say with some justification, but if some Scots want to wear it as a 'civvy' item to denote their heritage, then why not? Just don't expect the Irish to do that.

I don't think you are really confused, just pretending to be confused in an ironic way. But then, everybody knew that.

[macwilkin]

The balmoral/tam/blue bonnet is/are only worn to represent Scottish heritage, probably because the Irish have the very similar caubeen instead.
The kilt has a century plus of history in Ireland (but I'm sure you knew that). However, everyone concedes that Scots wore the kilt first, and that cowboys wore jeans first. Being neither a Scot nor a cowboy, I'm about as likely to wear a ten gallon hat with my jeans as a balmoral with my kilt. Not very.

The Irish Air Corps currently wear blue glengarries and the Irish National Army field green ones, to match their respective uniforms, and I'm not just referring to pipers, although in fact the army pipers wear a black caubeen with saffron ribbons and green hackle instead. The glengarry derives AFAIK from an English military forage cap by way of the Highland Scots regiments. Many regard it as a military/pipers' hat, and I would say with some justification, but if some Scots want to wear it as a 'civvy' item to denote their heritage, then why not?

I don't think you are really confused, just pretending to be confused in an ironic way. But then, everybody knew that.

The Irish Air Corps wears the Scottish pattern glengarry (as well as the Irish Ranger Wing), but pipers, officers cavalry/armored regiments wear a "glengarry" which is similar to a bonnet/caubeen -- see MacCarron's Irish Defence Forces since 1922 (Osprey MAA No. 417) for more information about the difference.

While some have tried to clame an ancient pedigree for the caubeen, citing a depiction of the Irish warlord Owen Roe O'Neill, I can't say I've seen any hard & fast evidence for it.

Regards,

Todd

[Phil]

One aspect of "flat-cap" wearing that has not yet been explored is its association with the class system, the British (particularly southern British) obsession with classifyiing people according to their upbringing, employment, place of residence and their accent. Broadly speaking this comprises:-
1. Upper class - the lords and ladies, royalty etc. a privileged group of people who cling desperately to their money and position in society, generally by the means of excluding anyone not selected by an accident of birth. They are quite happy to wear whatever headwear is handy because they know you can't be one of them whatever you wear and like to "slum it" occasionally. Americans will recognise the similar one-time habit of socialites there visiting Harlem to revel in the misfortune of others.
2. Middle class - these are wannabee lords and ladies but, sadly, despite having been fortunate to have been left some land and cash by Daddy, unfortunately he didn't manage the blue-blooded genes. They never stop trying, however, and are the greatest sticklers for all forms of behaviour so as to appear as if they might, just might, possibly on a good day with the wind behind them, be mistaken for nobility. They would never be seen dead in a flat cap, however, which is seen as one of the the ultimate defining badges of the next class which is -
3. Working class - these are the people who actually DO things as opposed to those who inherited things. They have not been in the fortunate position of being left some land and money by Daddy but have, instead, had to roll up their sleeves and earn the filthy stuff by the sweat of their brows. And they wear flat caps - an unmistakeable badge of their lowly status.