Why all the negative comments on Flat Caps?

[Phil]

This makes me uncomfortable on so many levels...

First it is a form of "class-ism" that is every bit as egregious as the "elitism" that you are imputing to the British upper classes...only in this case it's in reverse. I see this everywhere now...as if there is something inherently wrong with people who, by accident of birth, are wealthier than the common and ordinary run of citizens. It strikes me as envious at its heart and a whine/rant of little real substance.

It's also a broad generalization that upon closer inspection doesn't have all that much meaning that I can see. I am a working man. I make things...of real and tangible value to others. My fingernails are black 30 days out of every month (except February and then only 29). I work 8-10 hours a day at a job that has left me, after 35+ years, with a bit of a humpback and unrelieved pain in many of my joints.

Yet I am a bit of a stickler for order and structure and all "forms of behaviour" and traditions.

And yes, to my mind, people who have the resources and time to scrape the black out from under their fingernails on a regular basis, do project a slightly more appealing aspect than those of us who find the black so ingrained as to be impossible to remove. Would I prefer to have clean fingernails when go out with to dinner with my wife...who wouldn't? I mean really? There are lots of things about a more prosperous and leisurely lifestyle that I would eagerly embrace. Who wouldn't? Really?

Having said that, I would wear, and have done, flat caps. I like them.

Despite being all too boringly familiar, none of these three characterizations really rings true to me. None of them really bear up under closer scrutiny. In my opinion...

I fear that you miss the whole point of my post, whether by accident or on purpose. I do understand why none of these "characterizations" rings true, however, as I assume you have been born and brought up in a country where none of them apply. You may aspire to be the President of your country, I have to rely on an accident of birth for that. You may wish to join an elite branch of your armed forces and rise to the top in it. I can only aspire to advancement within the catering corps as the Household Division is a closed shop to officers without a privileged background. I won't go on but I do wish you would not place an "envy of wealth" slant on my comments without a true appreciation of the circumstances that I attempted to describe. Some of the "let them eat cake" responses from the "shooting, fishing, beagling, cub hunting, various other blood sports" camp are entirely predictable, of course because what vested interests do you think they are trying to defend?

[Bigkahuna]

removed

[Bigkahuna]

My life is to be "Blighted" if I wear a flat cap??????:hide

[DWFII]

I fear that you miss the whole point of my post, whether by accident or on purpose. I do understand why none of these "characterizations" rings true, however, as I assume you have been born and brought up in a country where none of them apply. You may aspire to be the President of your country, I have to rely on an accident of birth for that. You may wish to join an elite branch of your armed forces and rise to the top in it. I can only aspire to advancement within the catering corps as the Household Division is a closed shop to officers without a privileged background. I won't go on but I do wish you would not place an "envy of wealth" slant on my comments without a true appreciation of the circumstances that I attempted to describe. Some of the "let them eat cake" responses from the "shooting, fishing, beagling, cub hunting, various other blood sports" camp are entirely predictable, of course because what vested interests do you think they are trying to defend?

I would not purposefully mis-understand you. I apologize for whatever misunderstanding...for whatever reason.

And I concede that I have not grown up in or had much exposure to the kind of culture or social structure you describe...but, surely that works the other way around, as well--if you are speaking to an international audience you can't really expect them to share your unique perspectives, can you?

That said, I think that "class" is probably nearly as well established and in someways just as restrictive in the US as in Britain...it's just more subtle. But there are many people in the US...and in Britain, too, I'm sure...who use their wealth, whether inherited or not, to great benefit for their fellow man. Charities, endowments, trusts, foundations, and the like. To be sure, there's a certain amount of self-interest involved in this but there's a certain amount of generosity, as well.

On the other hand, those at the other end of the spectrum seldom have even enough generosity of spirit to give anyone visibly better off than themselves the benefit of the doubt.

And in this country...as I'm sure must be true in yours...there is at least a percentage of the "lower classes" who would rather wallow in self-pity than work.

There is little to admire in greed and the unrelenting consignment of quality, respect, and tradition to commercial interests--the reduction of all things good to the lowest common denominator for the purpose of selling it more easily (or cheaply).

But there is absolutely no redeeming aspect of poverty...no virtue in starvation and disease.

That "the third class are the most virtuous" strikes me as sloganeering to some extent...add a flat cap and suddenly you have a revolution. It doesn't resonate with me or seem useful in the real world.

[slohairt]

I own a caubeen, but I'm not really much of a hat guy. (Due to my large Irish head.) I've never worn a flat cap, though my cousin (and close friend) frequently wore one backwards during his 'Dazed and Confused' phase!

[Phil]

Before this thread finally gets closed down can I just mention our National Bard, Robert Burns, and his poem that summed up succinctly the attitude many Scots have -
The man's a man for a that

Ye see yon birkie, ca'd a lord, birkie - a dandy
Wha struts, an' stares, an' a' that;
Tho' hundreds worship at his word,
He's but a coof for a' that: coof - a fool
For a' that, an' a' that,
His ribband, star, an' a' that:
The man o' independent mind
He looks an' laughs at a' that.

A prince can mak a belted knight,
A marquis, duke, an' a' that;
But an honest man's abon his might,
Gude faith, he maunna fa' that!
For a' that, an' a' that,
Their dignities an' a' that;
The pith o' sense, an' pride o' worth,
Are higher rank than a' that.

Then let us pray that come it may,
(As come it will for a' that,)
That Sense and Worth, o'er a' the earth,
Shall bear the gree, an' a' that. bear the gree - win the prize
For a' that, an' a' that,
It's coming yet for a' that,
That Man to Man, the world o'er,
Shall brothers be for a' that.

I couldn't put it so eloquently.