The most ridiculous.......

[Bugbear]

Kilt police will arrest those who are not in their clan's tartan.

And then the Kilt Hippies, in their pleated-canvas man-skirts, said:

"Oh man, look at the colors...

In that tartan."

[dfmacliam]

You know that cammo explaination makes sense, and it must be a tradition now because it's lived out through the times..

[Barry]

And then the Kilt Hippies, in their pleated-canvas man-skirts, said:
"Oh man, look at the colors... In that tartan."

Ted - have you been smoking that "Mellow Yellow" again?? ( you know it makes you think you're a dandelion)

[Bugbear]

Ted - have you been smoking that "Mellow Yellow" again?? ( you know it makes you think you're a dandelion)

Actually, DWFII coined the term "Kilt Hippie."

And I am a member of The Order of the Dandelion.

[Scotus]

Okay, on a more serious note, most things you read about Clan Comyn during the 13th and early 14th centuries is probably way off base; in particular, the reputation of John "the Red" Comyn, whose name has been smeared by history, predominately through the Bruce propagandists Barbour and Archbishop Lamberton.

Yes, Bruce is very important in the history of Scotland; however, in the process of his rising to power, he stabbed the chief of the Comyns at the high altar of Grayfriars Church in Dumfries (the ancestor of the current chief, Sir Robert Comyn, was killed defending his nephew), rushed to be crowned king, destroyed the Comyn clan in Badenoch and Buchan with the help of several clans, and set in place a propaganda machine that destroyed the good reputation the Comyns had.

The Comyn clan was very important and they were great defenders of Scottish independence. The Comyns were orginally Norman, but continued to marry into noble Celtic. While Bruce was defending his land in England, John Comyn was defending Scotland. As the most powerful man in Scotland, he led the Scots to a victory over the English at Roslin, being outnumbered 8,000 to 30,000. After this, many came to terms with the English and John was abandoned by many of his allies. He had no choice but to come to terms with Edward. It is most likely, when they met in that church in Dumfries, that Bruce suggested they go to war with England again. Bruce knew he'd have to have Comyn support in order to assume the crown of Scotland. The Red Comyn probably became outraged at the thought of betraying the peace he had made with the English king. For this he gave his life. Bruce was thereafter excommunicated.

The rest, as they say, is history. Bruce became king, Scotland independent, and the Comyn clan unjustly seen as a bunch of treacherous thugs.

Here endeth the lesson.

[macwilkin]

Okay, on a more serious note, most things you read about Clan Comyn during the 13th and early 14th centuries is probably way off base; in particular, the reputation of John "the Red" Comyn, whose name has been smeared by history, predominately through the Bruce propagandists Barbour and Archbishop Lamberton.

Yes, Bruce is very important in the history of Scotland; however, in the process of his rising to power, he stabbed the chief of the Comyns at the high altar of Grayfriars Church in Dumfries (the ancestor of the current chief, Sir Robert Comyn, was killed defending his nephew), rushed to be crowned king, destroyed the Comyn clan in Badenoch and Buchan with the help of several clans, and set in place a propaganda machine that destroyed the good reputation the Comyns had.

The Comyn clan was very important and they were great defenders of Scottish independence. The Comyns were orginally Norman, but continued to marry into noble Celtic. While Bruce was defending his land in England, John Comyn was defending Scotland. As the most powerful man in Scotland, he led the Scots to a victory over the English at Roslin, being outnumbered 8,000 to 30,000. After this, many came to terms with the English and John was abandoned by many of his allies. He had no choice but to come to terms with Edward. It is most likely, when they met in that church in Dumfries, that Bruce suggested they go to war with England again. Bruce knew he'd have to have Comyn support in order to assume the crown of Scotland. The Red Comyn probably became outraged at the thought of betraying the peace he had made with the English king. For this he gave his life. Bruce was thereafter excommunicated.

The rest, as they say, is history. Bruce became king, Scotland independent, and the Comyn clan unjustly seen as a bunch of treacherous thugs.

Here endeth the lesson.

HEAR, HEAR!

And for those who would like to read more about the Comyn family, Alan Young's Robert the Bruce's Rivals: The Comyns, 1212-1314 (Tuckwell Press, 1997) is highly recommended. It is in my "top 5" list of favourite books about Scottish history.

Courage!

Todd

[Nick the DSM]

It is so. Recently discovered documents uncovered in the dismantling of the Thompson ancestral castle reveal that the first clan tartan was worn in 1685 when Scotland was playing England. A group of Thompsons invented tartan for camoflage when they discovered themselves to be surrounded by rowdy chavs. Fearing for their safety and thinking quickly, they used the materials at hand---Hereford cow dung, face powder nipped from the local floozies and cheap imported chianti---to color their kilts in such a way that they blended in with the hooligans. On their returning north of the Border, the fashion caught on.

origination of the ghillie suit?

[Ancienne Alliance]

1- Bagpipes are celtic
2- You need 8 yards of fabric to make a real kilt
3- You arent allowed to wear a family tartan on your mother's side


Best,

Robert

[O'Callaghan]

They were the ones who assigned clan names to tartans:

http://www.albanach.org/sources.htm

Regards,

Todd

Wilsons did certainly assign quite a few names to tartans. It seems that they added to their catalogue the names of people who had ordered a particular tartan, and then others of the same name often ordered the same tartan.

However, this is far from the only way that tartan names came about. Some came from the bogus book by the "Sobieski Stuart Brothers" conmen. A few genuinely existed in ancient times. Some are very recent. Some were chosen by the chiefs in 1822 to visit the King.

[macwilkin]

Wilsons did certainly assign quite a few names to tartans. It seems that they added to their catalogue the names of people who had ordered a particular tartan, and then others of the same name often ordered the same tartan.

However, this is far from the only way that tartan names came about. Some came from the bogus book by the "Sobieski Stuart Brothers" conmen. A few genuinely existed in ancient times. Some are very recent. Some were chosen by the chiefs in 1822 to visit the King.

I am very much aware of the Sobieski Stuart Brothers and their "big book o' tartans" -- but if you read Matt's article, you would note that Wilson's of Bannockburn came before the brothers and the 1822 visit of King George IV. You're preaching to the choir.

In any case, my point was that the clan tartan was not invented by Englishmen, although they certainly jumped on the bandwagon after George's visit, pink tights and all!

T.