Tradition of Non-Cookie-Cutter Kilt Jackets?

[Colonel MacNeal]

I've always wanted a Manx Charlie jacket. It's just like the Prince Charlie jacket, but without Tails.

[KFCarter]

I've always wanted a Manx Charlie jacket. It's just like the Prince Charlie jacket, but without Tails.

[Macman]

I've always wanted a Manx Charlie jacket. It's just like the Prince Charlie jacket, but without Tails.

Groan! Good one!

[Bugbear]

Guess you could have long haired doublets and short haired doublets.

[GlassMan]

Well, the kilt jackets are tailored in an interesting way, as well as, the regular suits over there. A lot of ours arn't fitted at all; I think it's called bag style. They change the styles a lot, too. It does get maddening after a while.

Ahhh, the both famous and infamous Bag Style of suit coat here in the United States. Many people do not realize that this suit coat style was first introduced by Brooks Brothers. Both English and Continental style tradition suit coats have a slight taper to the middle that creates a very nice sillouette, however it doesn't suit the American middle.

Even in the early 20th century, the average American business man tended to carry a bit of extra baggage around the belly (as opposed to the Average American who worked hard for their wages and seldom if ever even owned a suit coat much less a substantial waistline). The Bag Coat (also known as a Sack Coat) was the antidote to this.

Through clever tricks of tailoring, Brooks Brothers created a coat that had the ability of making both large and small men look average! The sides descended straight down to hide bulging spare tires, while seams on the back still bent inward to give the false impression that the man still had a smaller waist than shoulders. In addition, the coat sported a single very deep vent in the back. Many continental coats have no vent, while many English coats have double vents. Large American behinds made the ventless design uncomfortable and splayed out the shallow double vent to the point where it actually accentuated the size of the behind by pulling apart and creating a triangle of trousers and shirts darting in between. A single extremely deep vent both allowed for expansion but since the vent was so deep no amount of spread could create a situation in which the vent sides truly pulled apart and exposed the clothing beneath.

Portly men took to this and, as the business class belly began to expand into even the working classes the sack coat became the dominant coat style in the United States. In fact, all extra-large suit coats descend from this basic design.

We may feel bad about our weight in the early 21st century, but it was a problem already apparent in the sedentary businessmen of the first half of the 20th century as well.

[Bugbear]

A lot of the off the peg bag jackets will buldge out on the sides, where the side vents would be, when they are worn open; this is minimalized on one that fits well, though. I noticed this while experimenting with kilt jacket conversions, and decided to try putting pleats along the back-side seams to take up that spare material. The pleats are sewn down in the waist area, creating darts toward the shoulder blades, and the back flap below.

The kilt jacket can't really be closed after this alteration, but it is supposed to always be worn open, anyway. Some day, I will have to try to get pictures and post them, just to see if it looks all right, but the back of that jacket feels like it fits correctly. I wish I had a suit jacket that fit like that, and could be closed in the front, of course,

[Colonel MacNeal]

Groan! Good one!

I really would prefer one like I described, I see little reason for the tails on the Prince Charlie. Perhaps someone will enlighten me.

[KFCarter]

Some day, I will have to try to get pictures and post them, just to see if it looks all right, but the back of that jacket feels like it fits correctly. I wish I had a suit jacket that fit like that, and could be closed in the front, of course,

Please do post pics when you can.

[macwilkin]

Ahhh, the both famous and infamous Bag Style of suit coat here in the United States. Many people do not realize that this suit coat style was first introduced by Brooks Brothers. Both English and Continental style tradition suit coats have a slight taper to the middle that creates a very nice sillouette, however it doesn't suit the American middle.

Even in the early 20th century, the average American business man tended to carry a bit of extra baggage around the belly (as opposed to the Average American who worked hard for their wages and seldom if ever even owned a suit coat much less a substantial waistline). The Bag Coat (also known as a Sack Coat) was the antidote to this.

Through clever tricks of tailoring, Brooks Brothers created a coat that had the ability of making both large and small men look average! The sides descended straight down to hide bulging spare tires, while seams on the back still bent inward to give the false impression that the man still had a smaller waist than shoulders. In addition, the coat sported a single very deep vent in the back. Many continental coats have no vent, while many English coats have double vents. Large American behinds made the ventless design uncomfortable and splayed out the shallow double vent to the point where it actually accentuated the size of the behind by pulling apart and creating a triangle of trousers and shirts darting in between. A single extremely deep vent both allowed for expansion but since the vent was so deep no amount of spread could create a situation in which the vent sides truly pulled apart and exposed the clothing beneath.

Portly men took to this and, as the business class belly began to expand into even the working classes the sack coat became the dominant coat style in the United States. In fact, all extra-large suit coats descend from this basic design.

We may feel bad about our weight in the early 21st century, but it was a problem already apparent in the sedentary businessmen of the first half of the 20th century as well.

To add to Glassman's post, the sack suit/coat came out of the American Civil War, and was the civilian equivalent of the US Army "sack coat" or fatigue blouse. The blouse was originally intended for fatigue duty (with a frock coat serving as a dress uniform), but became somewhat universal in the Federal forces.

With so many uniforms needed for soldiers in the field, the army turned to standard sizes (I, II, III & IV), which was later picked up by civilian tailors for "off the rack" clothing.

Regards,

Todd

[Bugbear]

Please do post pics when you can.

I will try to arange that. I'm still working on a few parts of the jacket. There are a couple of other experiments on this jacket, as well.

I think I might start a thread exploring the backs of kilt jackets.