Why haven't they...

[macwilkin]

Yes, but I don't thank that was what was said in the post I was looking at. I will go back and reread it carefully.
In a quick search I did find that and also what you were saying about the U.S. fighting with Germany before the formal declaration of war.

I'm sorry, Ted, but you've lost me. Please read the articles I posted, especially the second one, regarding the sinking of the USS Reuben James in October, 1941, and the undeclared war of sorts between Nazi Germany and the USA.

T.

[Bugbear]

The US only declared war upon Japan, not Germany. It was Germany that declared war upon the US even they were under no obligation under the Axis Pact to do so as the US had not attacked Japan.

Had Germany not declared war upon the US it might have taken the US a lot longer to take on Germany as well as Japan.

Japan also declared war on the U.S. before the U.S. declared war on Japan. Sorry, I've just heard too many people try to tell me that there was no formal declaration of war against Germany by the U.S. in WWII, but there was. It's mostly in the wording.

[macwilkin]

Japan also declared war on the U.S. before the U.S. declared war on Japan. Sorry, I've just heard too many people try to tell me that there was no formal declaration of war against Germany by the U.S. in WWII, but there was. It's mostly in the wording.

Ted,

But, the US declaration of war came in response to Germany's declaration, as per the BBC article I linked to. Trefor was correct in his original statement.

T.

[Bugbear]

I'm sorry, Ted, but you've lost me. Please read the articles I posted, especially the second one, regarding the sinking of the USS Reuben James in October, 1941, and the undeclared war of sorts between Nazi Germany and the USA.

T.

I have no idea where we are disagreeing in anyway, Todd. That is exactly what I was talking about in my post. I have quoted the part of the post that said that the U.S. did not declare war on Germany, and explained why I pointed it out.

[Bugbear]

Ted,

But, the US declaration of war came in response to Germany's declaration, as per the BBC article I linked to. Trefor was correct in his original statement.

T.

The same could be said about Japan, it's attack, and it's declaration of war.

Like I said, I only bring it up because there are a lot of people who have tried to argue that the U.S. never declared war against Germany, and that seemed to be what was being said. I don't think, after reading the post several times, that was what was meant.

* I had to edit an addition to this post.

* Sorry, it was an idiotic thing to even bring up, and I should have known better. *

[macwilkin]

Anyway, back to the original topic of this thread.

One of the best WWII movies (and a British movie to boot) INMHO is Powell & Pressburger's The Life & Death of Colonel Blimp.

T.

[McClef]

According to the terms of the Tripartite Pact, each Axis nation was only obligated to come in to defend their allies if they were attacked. Since Japan did the attacking, Hitler was under no obligation to also declare war on the US and neither was Mussolini (who only did it because Hitler did anyway.)

Interestingly, Japan did not declare war on the Soviet Union when Germany invaded it and Stalin did not declare war on Japan until almost the end.

If the US did declare war officially it was only after Germany declared war against them and it was certainly after Roosevelt's famous day that will live in infamy speech.

The Germans clearly did not like lend lease but they too were obtaining arms and supplies from neutral nations closer to home - iron ore from Sweden for example. US escorts to Iceland were a good conveying procedures exercise and in no way involved a direct act of war against Germany.

Alas, (just as in WW1) the German submarines considered them fair game in such a circumstance as the Reuben James incident shows.

I wasn't impressed by The Life and Death of Colonel Blimp myself - it was based upon the cartoon character created by David Lowe in the pre war 1930s as a satire on the establishment and didn't transcribe into a good war movie.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Colonel_Blimp

[Bugbear]

[QUOTE=McClef;730301]If the US did declare war officially it was only after Germany declared war against them and it was certainly after Roosevelt's famous day that will live in infamy speech.

Yes, the declaration was on Dec 11, 1941.
Like I said, my misunderstanding of the post was mostly in the wording. Also, I apologize, it was not wise of me to jump in the disscussion with that.

[MacMillan of Rathdown]

Gee Trefor, I am afraid that you have missed the point about Chaplin's The Great Dictator, which was that it was a film MADE in the USA, at an AMERICAN studio, and with an AMERICAN cast - with one NOTABLE exception (notable in that Chaplin didn't serve in the Great War, and resided in the United States from 1914-1953); that exception being Mr. Chaplin. True he did have to sink a lot of his money into the project (just like Mel Gibson did in The Passion of Chirst to get that project off the ground. Both men, by the way, were the producers of the films they made, and it's the producers who supply the cash.). But, since a movie made in the USA doesn't seem to qualify as "an American film" according to your rather parsed definition, I'll offer another film from the year 1940: The Mortal Storm. The picture concerns itself with how the Nazi takeover in Germany splits a family, and ruins the life of the father, a famous academic. Also from Hollywood, that same year, was Escape which focuses on Robert Taylor (the star) getting his mother out of a concentration camp in Nazi Germany before the start of the war.

I wasn't impressed by The Life and Death of Colonel Blimp myself - it was based upon the cartoon character created by David Lowe in the pre war 1930s as a satire on the establishment and didn't transcribe into a good war movie.

Well, the reason that it isn't a good war movie is because it's not a war movie (despite what wikipedia may think). It also bears no resemblance to the David Lowe comic strip, with the possible exception of Roger Livesey's moustache . The Life and Death of Colonel Blimp is first an foremost a story about love and friendship, honour and doing "the right thing". It starts in WWII, then flashes back to the Boer War where the hero, Roger Livesey, meets the woman he will always love, and the man he will always like and respect. Their paths cross repeatedly going from the Boer War, WWI and, finally, WWII. One of the subtle ironies of the film is it's title: The Colonel Blimp comic strip character was a bumbling old geezer who never got it right. In the film, the main charcter (Wynn-Candy, plaid by Livesey) possesses every trait that represents the best in the British character. Made in 1943 it is a long movie-- 163 minutes -- and worth every minute you spend watching it. By and large The Life and Death of Colonel Blimp is universally considered to be one of the very best films to ever come out of Britain.

It's a shame you can't appreciate it.

[McClef]

Gee Trefor, I am afraid that you have missed the point about Chaplin's The Great Dictator, which was that it was a film MADE in the USA, at an AMERICAN studio, and with an AMERICAN cast - with one NOTABLE exception (notable in that Chaplin didn't serve in the Great War, and resided in the United States from 1914-1953); that exception being Mr. Chaplin. True he did have to sink a lot of his money into the project (just like Mel Gibson did in The Passion of Chirst to get that project off the ground. Both men, by the way, were the producers of the films they made, and it's the producers who supply the cash.). But, since a movie made in the USA doesn't seem to qualify as "an American film" according to your rather parsed definition, I'll offer another film from the year 1940: The Mortal Storm. The picture concerns itself with how the Nazi takeover in Germany splits a family, and ruins the life of the father, a famous academic. Also from Hollywood, that same year, was Escape which focuses on Robert Taylor (the star) getting his mother out of a concentration camp in Nazi Germany before the start of the war.

I do not recall that I denied that is was an American film, only that it was not your standard HOLLYWOOD fare. And Chaplin was NOT the only British actor in it.

I confess I had not heard of these others you cite but after investigation they are clearly NOT war movies and the trailer for The Mortal Storm even says as much - "A tale of love and sacrifice NOT war." They are both set before WW2 and even before the Anschluss involving individuals and not nations.

I am not trying to be deliberately obtuse but I am still waiting for an American made movie that fits your original claim about occupied Europe as none of these qualify being about Germany alone before it got expansionist.

Well, the reason that it isn't a good war movie is because it's not a war movie (despite what wikipedia may think). It also bears no resemblance to the David Lowe comic strip, with the possible exception of Roger Livesey's moustache . The Life and Death of Colonel Blimp is first an foremost a story about love and friendship, honour and doing "the right thing". It starts in WWII, then flashes back to the Boer War where the hero, Roger Livesey, meets the woman he will always love, and the man he will always like and respect. Their paths cross repeatedly going from the Boer War, WWI and, finally, WWII. One of the subtle ironies of the film is it's title: The Colonel Blimp comic strip character was a bumbling old geezer who never got it right. In the film, the main charcter (Wynn-Candy, plaid by Livesey) possesses every trait that represents the best in the British character. Made in 1943 it is a long movie-- 163 minutes -- and worth every minute you spend watching it. By and large The Life and Death of Colonel Blimp is universally considered to be one of the very best films to ever come out of Britain.

It's a shame you can't appreciate it.

Maybe so but we can't all like the same movies can we?