Clans without Crests

**DamnthePants** · 8th June 09, 09:26 PM

Its been along time since I’ve posted. I’ve still been around reading things, just not posting them.

I have a question though.

My last name is Park, which I have been told by my father that it is in fact from Scotland. I know its true, I’ve looked it up and I have found much text saying that it is. The only problem is, there is no data about anything else. There must be hundreds of clans that have no motto or crest, or tartan.

What is a person to do in this situation?

**Colonel MacNeal** · 8th June 09, 09:32 PM

http://www.chebucto.ns.ca/Heritage/F...s/Septs_P.html

Park is a Sept of MacDonald of Clan Raynald. I won't go into all the details here, but septs are families that are affiliated with the clans, and they are allowed to wear the tartan and clan badge of the clan.

**gilmore** · 8th June 09, 09:40 PM

Originally Posted by DamnthePants

Its been along time since I’ve posted. I’ve still been around reading things, just not posting them.

I have a question though.

My last name is Park, which I have been told by my father that it is in fact from Scotland. I know its true, I’ve looked it up and I have found much text saying that it is. The only problem is, there is no data about anything else. There must be hundreds of clans that have no motto or crest, or tartan.

What is a person to do in this situation?

Mottoes and crests do not belong to a clan, but to the chief of a clan. And, according to Lord Lyon, if there is no chief, there really is no clan. A clan association is a different story.

**St. Amish** · 8th June 09, 10:24 PM

Park is a sept of MacDonald of Clanranald.

This is the clan's crest.

I personally like the old motto better:
"Dh'aindeoin co theiraedh e"
(Gainsay who dare)

**Colonel MacNeal** · 9th June 09, 01:36 AM

Or you could actually be Korean.

**Bluescelt** · 9th June 09, 03:31 AM

In some cases lowland family names are not associated with clans. Wearing a district tartan of the area your family came from can be a good way to feel connected.
Scott

**JolyStNicholas** · 9th June 09, 04:54 AM

Originally Posted by Colonel MacNeal

Or you could actually be Korean.

I love it!! I am still laughing! Thank you for bring a smile to this ol face this early in the morn!

All good advice my friend, clan septs can wear that tartan with pride! Or a District Tartan with the same pride!

**JSFMACLJR** · 9th June 09, 05:17 AM

There are two armigerous Parks recorded in "An Ordinary of Arms," vol. 1; none in vol. 2. Perhaps you are related to either of these two gentlemen and can petition Lord Lyon for a matriculation.

1. James Park of ...(that's what the Ordinary says!)(1672-7): Azure, a fess chequy Argent and Gules between three fraises Argent.

2. Park of Fulfordlees (1672-7): Or, a fess chequy Gules and Argent between three bucks' heads cabossed, within a bordure Gules

**macwilkin** · 9th June 09, 05:49 AM

Originally Posted by Bluescelt

In some cases lowland family names are not associated with clans. Wearing a district tartan of the area your family came from can be a good way to feel connected.
Scott

Gi'e this man the cheroot!

The whole idea/concept of an affiliated name only works if you can trace your line to the general area of the clan you wish to affiliate with; in other words, whilst Park may be indeed a "sept" of the Macdonalds of Clanranald, this gent's Parks may not even be from their territory.

Whilst I know many do not put as much stock in that as some do, it needed to be said. A district tartan or even a state tartan is a nice alternative, and Gaelic Themes does make "generic" cap badges with a Lion Rampant, Thistle or "Jimmy" (St. Andrew and his cross) for those with no badge to wear.

Regards,

Todd

**DamnthePants** · 9th June 09, 10:26 AM

Thanks for the information.

About Being Korean, for the longest time I had assumed I was, not directly, maybe 3-4 times removed one of my ancestors was. Turned out they weren’t

Since you have been so nice, maybe I can ask you a more controversial question.

Since there is no unique crest, no unique motto, no unique tartan, is it possible to create one? Historically I think the answer is yes. Through out histories as families, European nobles, split off because of feuds or marriage, there were changes made to their family crest to reflect that. Flags were changed, names were altered. As we are living in history now, and there should technically be no difference between 1009ad and 2009bc, I don’t think it would be too bad of an offence to create a crest or motto for my family.

The only real difference I can see is that there would be only a handful of people it would relate to, due ot the fact that its new.

What do you think?