Kilted encounter with my city's finest

[Edmund L Green]

had i similar encounter when i was on conleave from germany ( im in the U.S.Army). i live in a small town. there is 4 police on the force. while taking pictures of my girlfriend with the bridge in the background and police station behind me, i hear a car come to a screeching halt.. followed by camera on the hood and hands up. now, my girlfriend although an american citizen and former soldier has lived in germany for quite some time.. this didnt help the situation. he went on to tell me i was taking pictures of the police station and the library, which i was not. he then started asking my gf where she was from, why is she in the states, for how long etc etc. she tells him she with me and im on leave. hes telling me to bend over forward with my hands on the hood still and i cant because i had spinal surgery 2 days prior and shouldnt have even been walking around. so i keep telling him no i cant and he keeps telling me im resisting blah blah blah. i show him the my back and bumcheek from the operations and he sees my military id. so then he goes on telling me i should have told him i was a soldier and i should know better than to take photos of govt. buildings. which i told him i wasnt. so basically he sat there and looked through every photo in the memory disk hands me the camera tells me " im lucky" and gets in his car and drives off. what a yahoo.

[pdcorlis]

Better you than me Hector - I doubt I would have handled things as elegantly as you did.

[george7]

Are there pictures of this library on the internet? Perhaps even on Google Streetview?

[PGH]

The cops are the good guys. In the very few times I've been asked questions I answer them so we can both be on our way as quickly as possible.

Must admit though, it does make me smile to think that the cop thinks there might be a connection between sitting in a truck wearing a kilt and dirty deeds aimed at a library. Cry illliitteraccccyyyy!!!!

[hospitaller]

Are there pictures of this library on the internet? Perhaps even on Google Streetview?

Actually yes, here they are, the building with the red roof is the Mac Donald's:

http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&sour...05724&t=h&z=18

and the street view:

http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&sour...305.71,,0,3.65

[Dall_Piobaire]

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Yes, the 'observant police' factor was fine with me, that's their job after all.

What I did find objectionable was the connection they made between the kilt, the scotland sticker and the saltire flag and my 'watching a government building' and whether I was a citizen or not.

Specially considering that I've been here for almost 10 years now and this was actually the first time I've ever been asked my naturalization status.

While wearing a kilt. Sitting inside my car. Having lunch.

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I am on your side on this my friend, I was just playing devil's advocate. Many would have no clue as to what country, unfortunately, the Saltire belongs!

Who knows what wild hair they had! All I could figure was that they started harassing you, you were getting annoyed with the whole thing, and justly so, and they were picking up on that!

[Dall_Piobaire]

had i similar encounter when i was on conleave from germany ( im in the U.S.Army). i live in a small town. there is 4 police on the force. while taking pictures of my girlfriend with the bridge in the background and police station behind me, i hear a car come to a screeching halt.. followed by camera on the hood and hands up. now, my girlfriend although an american citizen and former soldier has lived in germany for quite some time.. this didnt help the situation. he went on to tell me i was taking pictures of the police station and the library, which i was not. he then started asking my gf where she was from, why is she in the states, for how long etc etc. she tells him she with me and im on leave. hes telling me to bend over forward with my hands on the hood still and i cant because i had spinal surgery 2 days prior and shouldnt have even been walking around. so i keep telling him no i cant and he keeps telling me im resisting blah blah blah. i show him the my back and bumcheek from the operations and he sees my military id. so then he goes on telling me i should have told him i was a soldier and i should know better than to take photos of govt. buildings. which i told him i wasnt. so basically he sat there and looked through every photo in the memory disk hands me the camera tells me " im lucky" and gets in his car and drives off. what a yahoo.

These are the goons that give the good cops a bad name! My uncle, Irishman in all senses of the word, was a cop his enite working career. The nicest guy you would ever want to meet, but never, oh never give him attitude.

[Streetcar]

Yesterday I am sitting in my car, finishing what was left of my drink after eating my delicious fish sandwich, you know, sort of daydreaming while listening to the always delightful Edith Bowman when I hear a knock on my window.

And there's this police officer, the typical courtsies ensue and then asked me if I had an ID

As in Hello, I'm Officer Smith? As any citizen might greet another?

Being that I work as a Security Consultant, and one of the principals in the firm was the previous Police Chief for the city, I am well versed in Civil and Constitutional Rights when approached by police.

Then you're all ready familiar with a Terry Stops and Citizen Contacts.

So I asked him what the problem is and why am I being questioned.

He proceeds to tell me that he has been watching me for a couple of days and that I just sit there watching a government building, so I said 'you mean the public library? since when is a library a government building?'. No answer from him of course.

You asked and he answered. While the library in question may have been privately funded, it is certainly a public building. And before anyone goes down that road, OF COURSE you have a right to be there.

Right next to the library there is a Police station, so cop cars come and go and shifts change all the time.

Perhaps that government builiding?

...So I looked him back in the eye and say something to the effect of 'hard not to look at a building when it is right there in front of me as I parked'

Then he asked me about whether I am a citizen or not (because of my Scotland stickers in the rear window and the kilt) and where do I work.

I asked him whether he had reasonable suspicion that I was doing something illegal, and if not, I was not going to answer those questions. I did however hand him one of my business cards where it clearly details my position, address and telephone.

Would it have been difficult to say, "Hi officer. Just sitting here finishing my lunch and listening to the radio. I like this spot because it's quiet."
If I had been the officer, I certainly would have taken your reponse as both defensive and a challenge. I'd probably ask why you were getting so mad.

Then he asked me something to the effect of 'why are you mad', to which I replied that I wasn't so much mad as I was annoyed at being minding my own business and suddenly being questioned for no reason and treated as a suspect. He then replied something like 'well you can be annoyed all you want, let me see your license and registration', so I gave those to him.

That would have raised any officers suspicion meter quite a bit. And may I respectfully submit that if he had been treating you as a suspect, he would have had you step out of the car, possibly handcuffed and frisked for weapons.

But I digress.
Let's wear the officer's boots for just a moment. An unusually dressed man has been sitting in front of a public building for several consectutive days. It is unknown if he is watching for emergency exits, casing to see when the library is most busy, observing and noting police shift times and travel patterns, waiting for a specific officer or library patron, or just eating his lunch.

Any officer worth half of his salt should recognize this as as suspicious circumstance. Is there a reason he shouldn't just go up and ask, especially after the "typical courtsies?"

Suppose an ex-spouse was stalking his estranged wife. She gets shot outside the library she's working at and it comes out that police had seen a unusually dressed man hanging around outside the library for the past several days, and didn't even bother to contact him? Not arrest him, just ask what was going on?

Hector I like you and enjoy your posts. I'm not trying to antagonize you or anyone else here. But it always galls me when someone is gets offended by a police officer doing his job. The officer doesn't know anything about you. He sees a somewhat suspicious situation, so he takes the least invasive path - walking up and asking what's going on. He's answered with hostility and sarcasm.

As a security consultant, I would think you would realize that an officer tends to hand out what he's been given. If you're rude to a cop, I wouldn't expect him to be exceptionally friendly back.
Professional? Yes.
Polite? Yes.
Friendly? No.

[hospitaller]

He's answered with hostility and sarcasm.

Not sure when exactly my post turned into your barrage of assumptions and what ifs. I simply posted my experience while kilted.

Now, as for my response being 'hostile and sarcastic'? Now THAT one I don't understand.

If exerting my civil and constitutional rights, to you, is hostile and sarcastic....well, that's another thing altogether.

As a security consultant, I would think you would realize that an officer tends to hand out what he's been given. If you're rude to a cop, I wouldn't expect him to be exceptionally friendly back.

Again, I was being rude to the officer in question by letting him know that I am aware of my rights and exercising them?

We must be talking about a different country then.

One of those protections includes me eating lunch for days on end, while wearing my kilt, in front of a library.
Which by the way is NOT a government building.

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Moderators please, as things do tend to happen, this is taking an unintended turn, so please keep an eye on this thread. I'm not requesting it to be closed...but a nudge here and there would keep it in track.

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[Dall_Piobaire]

Nothing at all against you Hector, I also enjoy your input!

But, you always catch more flies with honey then with vinegar.

Can you imagine the everyday stress of just walking up to the window of someone you veiw as suspicious. Many a cop has been shot that way.

I caught the fact that you were put off, even through you post on the internet. I would have been a bit well, "I haven't done anything", but then I would have engaged him, maybe even made a friend, interested him in why you find your attire enjoyable!

What do ya figure he thinks about you now!

It's really hard to see the other side of the coin sometimes, but being defensice is just gonna arouse more suspicions