US Campaign Ribbons

[Regnifne]

Interesting that most responses quote ARMY regs when the gentleman in question is a NAVY veteran . . .

Ceilidh_gal, Welcome!!

If kilt and PC are being worn in a dress fashion (or for the civilian equivalent of Black/White tie), why not treat it as any other formal civilian wear (which it is)? "Technically" being "allowed" to wear one's earned medals and ribbons is all fine and good, but most civilians don't know a thing about military dress codes, AND when you throw in the kilt, it further adds to the confusion. If any one were to single your father out for wearing his medals, and start spouting off regulations and infractions he would be committing heretofore, I would think they were a few bricks short of a load . . . honestly, you'd have to have a cane up your craw to really have a problem with a vet and his medals, especially if displaying them accurately on civilian dress attire . . .

Just my thoughts. I also attend military functions in civilian attire, with mini meds on, and no one (CO/CGs, CMC, MCPON, Force MC, etc) has said a thing to me. Then again, I wear them according to the following regs:

NAVY Uniform Regs can be found here: http://www.npc.navy.mil/CommandSuppo...ormRegulations

And what I interpret as the way to wear ribbons with a PC here: http://www.npc.navy.mil/CommandSuppo...ter6/61001.htm

It's section 61002.7 . . .and says this:

7. WEARING AWARDS ON CIVILIAN CLOTHES

a. Miniature Medals and Miniature Breast Insignia. You may wear miniature medals and breast insignia on civilian evening dress (white tie) or civilian dinner dress (black tie) in the same manner as for dinner dress jackets.

It goes on to detail the Medal of Honor, mini-ribbons, marksmanship, etc . . .

Dinner Dress Jacket regulations are here in Section 5315 http://www.npc.navy.mil/NPC/Template...HINT=Guest#535

5315.1 says the medals would be placed on formal and dinner dress jackets with the holding bar of the lowest row of miniature medals 3 inches below the notch, centered on the lapel, parallel to the deck and can be summed up with this sub-section

5315.2.a. Arrange medals in order of precedence in rows from top down, inboard to outboard, within rows. Service members possessing five or more medals may either wear the five senior medals or all of them. On the dinner dress jacket, center up to three miniature medals on the lapel. Position four or more miniatures starting at the inner edge of the lapel extending beyond the lapel on to the body of the jacket.

Don't worry, it comes with graphics for illustration purposes!

The reason I wanted to direct you to the proper Regs is that while the general idea between services is the same, some peculiars are present. The Army, for example, states not to wear ribbons on civilian clothes, while the Navy says mini ribbons are acceptable, but not in the dress capacity.

Hopefully this wasn't too overwhelming! I actually consulted my trusty copy of the Uniform Regs first and it seems this particular section hasn't changed.

If you can, get pics of your dad, we would love to see him!

Any questions, feel free to PM . . .

And Bravo Zulu for getting your dad kilted!

Cheers!

[Regnifne]

As for the ribbons being training awards, I disagree, I wear the Marine Corps Combat Action Ribbon and it is ranked higher than several medals that I have been awarded.

Agreed. The Army might have training ribbons, the Navy and Marines do not (unless I just never got any!). There are quite a number of ribbons without medals. The only training ribbons in the Navy/Marine Corps team are . . . well, there aren't any.

CAR, Battle E, JMU, NUC/MUC, the FMF ribbon/warfare device for us Corpsman types, are just a few of our ribbons without medals.

Cheers!

[MacMillan of Rathdown]

Interesting that most responses quote ARMY regs when the gentleman in question is a NAVY veteran . . .

Because post #16 specifically referred to AR 30-6. If it had referred to Navy regs, then subsequent postings (by me and possibly by others) would have referred to the Navy regs. Prior to post #16 no one referred to any regs. And yes, we knew the gentleman in question was a Navy vet.

[Regnifne]

Because post #16 referred to AR 30-6.

Quite so! Just interesting to me that no one mentioned the Navy regs up to my post . . . while some posters are versed in the AR, it is not applicable, per se, to the question from the OP. To continue to provide AR information on uniform questions for a Sailor seems a bit odd to me.

But we have quite the collection of good information to be culled into another sticky, perhaps!

[MacMillan of Rathdown]

There are lots of military regulations-- Army, Navy, Coast Guard, Marine, US Public Health Service, National Oceanographic and Atmospheric Survey, etc. But none of them really provide a true civilian model, especially for those wearing Highland attire. What may look acceptable when in uniform may look quite uneducated when applied to civilian modes of dress.

Since we are taking about Highland dress, and in this instance formal, traditional, Highland dress at that, I would suggest that the socially best course of action, when kilted, might be to follow the British protocols for wearing Orders, Decorations, and Medals with civilian evening attire.

Undoubtedly there will be some who may disagree with me and they are, of course, free to dress as they think may be appropriate.

As far as wearing ribbons on a Price Charlie is concerned, the Naval Regs cited above (Section 7- The Wearing of Awards on Civilian Clothes; Paragraph (a.) Miniature Medals and Miniature Breast Insignia) make it clear that while miniature-size medals may be worn, ribbons are NOT worn with white tie or black tie. That being the case, and since the Prince Charlie coatee is not an item of daytime attire, it would be contrary to Navy Regs regarding the wearing of medals by retired, or former, Navy personnel to wear ribbons on a Prince Charlie coatee.

[bigdad1]

"Since we are taking about Highland dress, and in this instance formal, traditional, Highland dress at that, I would suggest that the socially best course of action, when kilted, might be to follow the British protocols for wearing Orders, Decorations, and Medals with civilian evening attire.

Undoubtedly there will be some who may disagree with me and they are, of course, free to dress as they think may be appropriate."

I think it would be very wrong to follow British protocol to wear U.S. medals or ribbons. These three pages of posts have made it amply obvious that as usual when concerning mode of dress there are an infinite number of opinions with none proven dead correct. I have been to many events and seen many different approaches. One very good friend is a retired Marine Col. who wears mini-medals. Another is retired and wears only ribbons. I chose to wear ribbons on my PC or on a military style (Marine) shirt I sometimes wear. I am happy with the look and comfortable that I am not breaking any rules. I did after all earn my medals. And with that I will disagree with you and dress as I feel appropriate. Thank you for that option.

[Regnifne]

I think it would be very wrong to follow British protocol to wear U.S. medals or ribbons. These three pages of posts have made it amply obvious that as usual when concerning mode of dress there are an infinite number of opinions with none proven dead correct.

Second that motion. Even when awarded a foreign military medal/ribbon, it it still worn in accordance with US military guidelines (presuming it fits those guidelines). We are US Military members/vets, wearing a different form of civilian (in the US) attire. Highland dress would be classified as black/white tie and thus a dress outfit, depending on the wearer and situation, presumably, thus falling under guidelines for formal civilian attire. Even if I were in Scotland, I would follow US custom for display of my military awards (if the situation warranted the wearing of awards). I'm not a British citizen/vet.

And I'm a little lost about the reference to something I already mentioned (Ribbons are not ok on formal attire, medals are, IAW NavRegs). Maybe there is some confusion, ribbons and medals are NOT the same thing. . .

But again, the glory of this outfit and our country is the ability to wear an incredible garment, comfortably, and with pride. To elevate it to a formal status is admirable and respectful, and only makes sense to me that it fall in to the category of civilian formal attire and medals be displayed proudly! Option and opinion count, but in this case, a specific guideline pertains to the display, it's just the garment that is in question to some.

Motivate!

[Jock Scot]

Second that motion. Even when awarded a foreign military medal/ribbon, it it still worn in accordance with US military guidelines (presuming it fits those guidelines). We are US Military members/vets, wearing a different form of civilian (in the US) attire. Highland dress would be classified as black/white tie and thus a dress outfit, depending on the wearer and situation, presumably, thus falling under guidelines for formal civilian attire. Even if I were in Scotland, I would follow US custom for display of my military awards (if the situation warranted the wearing of awards). I'm not a British citizen/vet.

And I'm a little lost about the reference to something I already mentioned (Ribbons are not ok on formal attire, medals are, IAW NavRegs). Maybe there is some confusion, ribbons and medals are NOT the same thing. . .

But again, the glory of this outfit and our country is the ability to wear an incredible garment, comfortably, and with pride. To elevate it to a formal status is admirable and respectful, and only makes sense to me that it fall in to the category of civilian formal attire and medals be displayed proudly! Option and opinion count, but in this case, a specific guideline pertains to the display, it's just the garment that is in question to some.

Motivate!

I would not presume to give advice to American vets on how they should wear their decorations, but you are talking about the mixing of two traditions when you are adding the kilt into the equation.It is the kilt and its accompanying attire that I am interested in.

I have had it on good authority that the British definition of "dress" is different to US "dress". So to a Brit a suit is not "dress" to a Brit "dress" would start with formal "morning dress", or, morning suit(kilt, black barathea, silver buttons,Argyll) and is formal day wear. In most cases, to a Brit, "dress" starts with black tie dinner jacket(tux) or in Highland terms a PC jacket and accoutrements and then on up the
scale. I mention all this so that there should be no confusion between the two definitions of the word "dress". So to us Brits you Americans wearing medals or ribbons with civilian day wear does look out of place.I suppose the mixing of cultures can be confusing, on occasion.

Interesting thread by the way.

[KiltedCoastie]

Interesting all the answers to the question. I might add another option. In CG Regs as in USN regs minature medals are part of the required uniform of a dinner dress jacket that was designed to mock a PC jacket. So instead of getting your father a PC jacket, go to a USN thrift store (almost every base has one) and buy him a dinner dress jacket. It would save you quite a bit a $$ also. I bought mine new, but I saw some for $10 at the local USN base.

[dfmacliam]

The mess dress is probably the best answer for the situation..