Gold Brothers, aka...

[Heather MacCain]

Dear McClef,

Sorry for such late reply, there were so many issues I was not sure where to start from.

I am very glad to hear your comments. Truth be told, my company shares a lot of your views. The issue of correct labeling is always substantial and that applies to all markets. On traditional goods market it is even more important as we deal with true heritage of a proud nation. We do not treat it lightheartedly and we try our best to promote Scottish heritage through the goods we are selling. The origin of items in our stock is never a secret and or policy is to provide accurate and up to date information about our products. This policy concerns all of our establishments in Scotland as well as our online and E-bay shops. We never try to deceive any of our customers as their satisfaction is our priority.

As for the “designed in Scotland” labels you find deceptive, I cannot agree with You. The designs of items bearing such labels are Scottish and therefore the label is in the right place.
I am a reasonable person myself but I remember instances when I bought items which I later found lacking the qualities I searched for. Many a time I blamed advertisers, producers and the sellers. I found after some time that it was often my fault not being careful enough and buying things at a moment’s impulse. Maybe that’s just me but honestly ask yourself how many wrong buys did you make in your life. That’s why at HoS we try to work with our customers and we apply our returns policies when they are not happy with the product they get.

All in all, I would like to say that the problem is not in the labels but more often in our minds. Once we are both open for discussion and criticism we can always reach a mutually satisfying agreement.

Thank you once again for all your posts.

Heather

[Paul]

Dear McClef,

Sorry for such late reply, there were so many issues I was not sure where to start from.

I am very glad to hear your comments. Truth be told, my company shares a lot of your views. The issue of correct labeling is always substantial and that applies to all markets. On traditional goods market it is even more important as we deal with true heritage of a proud nation. We do not treat it lightheartedly and we try our best to promote Scottish heritage through the goods we are selling. The origin of items in our stock is never a secret and or policy is to provide accurate and up to date information about our products. This policy concerns all of our establishments in Scotland as well as our online and E-bay shops. We never try to deceive any of our customers as their satisfaction is our priority.

As for the “designed in Scotland” labels you find deceptive, I cannot agree with You. The designs of items bearing such labels are Scottish and therefore the label is in the right place.
I am a reasonable person myself but I remember instances when I bought items which I later found lacking the qualities I searched for. Many a time I blamed advertisers, producers and the sellers. I found after some time that it was often my fault not being careful enough and buying things at a moment’s impulse. Maybe that’s just me but honestly ask yourself how many wrong buys did you make in your life. That’s why at HoS we try to work with our customers and we apply our returns policies when they are not happy with the product they get.

All in all, I would like to say that the problem is not in the labels but more often in our minds. Once we are both open for discussion and criticism we can always reach a mutually satisfying agreement.

Thank you once again for all your posts.

Heather

Heather... the whole "designed in Scotland" and "traditional Scottish kilt" things are deceptive to people who believe anything - i.e. many tourists in Scotland. When I was walking down to The Gathering I was asked by a man in a PV kilt "why does the back of your kilt sit better than mine does?"
I said "I got it fitted and it's pure wool... so it sits very well"
He asked "is it an authentic Scottish kilt though?"
I said "yes"
He said "the guy in the shop told me this is an authentic Scottish kilt"
I said "it's a kilt... but it's not made of wool or made in Scotland"
He said "how much did yours cost?"
I said "I got a bargain... it was only £170 which is amazing for this quality. How much was your then?"
"£60" he replied

I didnt say anything but £60 for a stock PV kilt that had pleats folding into eachother? I realise you guys don't charge that much but this guy was decieved. He bought it on the Royal Mile and I dont think you guys have any shops there so it obviously isn't your fault.
I just felt sorry for the guy... you can get a pure wool stock kilt for just more than what he payed. He may even return to Spain and people might even think that's what kilts are supposed to look like!

I think there's such a difference in quality that it's just not worth it. More shops should stop trying to "rip-off" people and supply mixed-fibre kilts at least. There's quite a few places who sell these like-wool, machine sewn - but made in Scotland kilts for £100 and less.

P.S. I'm not moaning at you - you're doing your job and your company's other stock is great... your kiltmaker is great. I'm just saying there's so many people - who dont have time to google kilts or to ask around on their holiday who simply see a "kilt" and think "wow. that's a great price" - thinking theyre getting a good deal.

[RockyR]

As for the “designed in Scotland” labels you find deceptive, I cannot agree with You. The designs of items bearing such labels are Scottish and therefore the label is in the right place.
I am a reasonable person myself but I remember instances when I bought items which I later found lacking the qualities I searched for. Many a time I blamed advertisers, producers and the sellers. I found after some time that it was often my fault not being careful enough and buying things at a moment’s impulse. Maybe that’s just me but honestly ask yourself how many wrong buys did you make in your life. That’s why at HoS we try to work with our customers and we apply our returns policies when they are not happy with the product they get.

All in all, I would like to say that the problem is not in the labels but more often in our minds. Once we are both open for discussion and criticism we can always reach a mutually satisfying agreement.

I am not trying to 'pick a fight' or anything, just clarify something. Also, please keep in mind that I'm NOT just talking about the GB franchises, but ANY store in ANY country selling kilts with that tag...

If you don't think it's being deceptive, then why don't the labels simply state EXACTLY what the product IS rather than what it is 'SIMILAR to'. Isn't a garment's label there to inform the customer of the details of what they're buying? If so, shouldn't it read:

'100% Acrylic (or whatever the material is) / Made in Pakistan'

That could possibly deter sales, so I assume that's the reason it's not clearly stated. Instead, the tag does NOT inform the customer where the material is woven or the kilt was made. How does NOT describing the material content / country of origin on the tag serve any purpose?

Wouldn't it be more 'honest' to just leave the tag OFF the kilt and not give ANY desription of 'Authentic Woven tartan / Designed in Scotland'?

[KFCarter]

Wouldn't it be more 'honest' to just leave the tag OFF the kilt and not give ANY desription of 'Authentic Woven tartan / Designed in Scotland'?

Of course it would, unfortunately....

The marketplace could work really well to sort out the wheat from the chaff, but only if the buyer had all the real information needed to make an informed choice...

enter, (cue the music): Advertising!

For many sellers, the gap between Advertising and Information has been, and always will be, a large one. Thank goodness for those merchants who are the exception to this. But when dealing with the others: Caveat Emptor.

[skauwt]

without taking sides
id like to point out that hector russells kilt maker in glasgow sell kilts with the tag "made in scotland " now most folk know marton mills isn't in scotland and the wool itself more likely isn't made in scotland..... id like to bet the kilt wasn't even sewn in scotland either
so when folk start going on about" made in scotland" please remember gold bros aren't the only ones who state a false fact even a established kiltmaker do so too

[Paul]

without taking sides
id like to point out that hector russells kilt maker in glasgow sell kilts with the tag "made in scotland " now most folk know marton mills isn't in scotland and the wool itself more likely isn't made in scotland..... id like to bet the kilt wasn't even sewn in scotland either
so when folk start going on about" made in scotland" please remember gold bros aren't the only ones who state a false fact even a established kiltmaker do so too

That's true... I have a kilt that's 100% made in Scotland and it doesn't even have a tag on it!
I have another where the tartan was woven by Marton Mills and it doesnt have a label either.
Although Gold Bros are misleading people into thinking THIS IS A REAL KILT, WITH REAL TARTAN AND THAT IT IS REALLY TRADITIONAL. It may be real tartan but it is neither of the others.

[McClef]

I am very glad to hear your comments. Truth be told, my company shares a lot of your views. The issue of correct labeling is always substantial and that applies to all markets. On traditional goods market it is even more important as we deal with true heritage of a proud nation. We do not treat it lightheartedly and we try our best to promote Scottish heritage through the goods we are selling. The origin of items in our stock is never a secret and or policy is to provide accurate and up to date information about our products. This policy concerns all of our establishments in Scotland as well as our online and E-bay shops. We never try to deceive any of our customers as their satisfaction is our priority.

As for the “designed in Scotland” labels you find deceptive, I cannot agree with You. The designs of items bearing such labels are Scottish and therefore the label is in the right place.

All in all, I would like to say that the problem is not in the labels but more often in our minds. Once we are both open for discussion and criticism we can always reach a mutually satisfying agreement.

Thank you once again for all your posts.

Heather

Thanks for your reply Heather.

Misleading labelling is not the preserve of Gold Brothers by any means - we see it on food products also too often. And it has also been recognised that these labels are not the exclusive preserve of your company.

I have one of your eight yard cotton camouflage kilts Heather and that carries exactly the same label - now please tell me that camouflage
was "designed in Scotland" or is an "Authentic Highland Tartan"? I like the kilt but do find the labelling somewhat bizarre!

Also not all tartans are "designed in Scotland" - many of them were "designed" elsewhere. So a blanket label does not indicate that any research has been done into their origin. Even the "modern" kilt would appear to have been "designed" by Thomas Rawlinson, an Englishman, albeit he was in Scotland at the time.

The label does not differentiate between what is designed in Scotland and what is actually made there. Nor do they indicate the material used. I am well aware that the bespoke services of your company are happy to show "100% wool, made in Scotland" etc but this only shows the differences all the more.

As to your claim that origin is never a secret, I have been in several of the shops and asked the staff and they themselves did not know - some of them guessed Scotland so it looks like their staff training could have been better.

I have even seen tourists trying the budget kilts on with the pleats at the front in the shops and it was down to me to point out that this was incorrect, the staff (seemingly mainly from Eastern Europe) had not bothered to show them, even seen them at the Castle sporting their new purchases the same way. We may well expect tourists to be uneducated but there are limits to how much that lack of education should be allowed to continue.

Just a couple of things to add to the discussion in the polite and friendly manner which you have demonstrated in this forum.

Warm Regards.

Trefor

[csbdr]

I haven't been in this discussion yet, but I have to first applaud Heather and welcome her. I think as a customer you have to have a certain amount of awareness of what you are buying. I know it's been said that there is a certain number of folks who will believe anything they see, but in my eyes you get what you pay for, whether it's kilts, shirts, cars, whatever. Not saying her products are junk, far from it. I had a kilt which was junk and gave it away. I also have a HoS PV kilt and it's a good kilt. It's put together well, the material is reasonable quality, and it's certainly good enough to wear out to the pub. I have other off the rack kilts, and I have hand made, made-to-measure kilts from several kiltmakers to compare to. Good as those? no way! But I feel if you go into a shop and plunk down a whopping 35 pounds, you get what you pay for and should expect that, and it's on YOUR HEAD, for making that purchase.

I appreciate that there is concern for the cottage, authentic, hand-made kilt industry in Scotland and what effect having inexpensive kilts so readily available has. But does anyone really think that the guy buying the 35 Pound kilt is really passing on a purchase of a kilt many, many times more expensive than that? Is it really DIRECT competition? I don't think so. Maybe later that guy will want to look into it further, and commission a kilt to be made for him. In that case, this level of kilt may help the industry in the long run

I do agree with the labelling however. I agree with you Heather that you have not said anything in the label which isn't strictly true, but the uneducated consumer WILL read that as "made in Scotland" and assume it's a true Scottish made wool kilt, for ot knowing any better. Stillwater Kilts has the material and the origin ofmanufacture labelled clearly. If you read up here, there are some who refuse to wear Pakistani kilts for their own reasons, but largely you will find Jerry has a HUGE following for his kilts. There is no real reason to NOT label your kilts for what/where they are. You would gain alot more credibility and likely would lose very few sale for the change.

[Paul]

I have even seen tourists trying the budget kilts on with the pleats at the front in the shops and it was down to me to point out that this was incorrect, the staff (seemingly mainly from Eastern Europe) had not bothered to show them, even seen them at the Castle sporting their new purchases the same way. We may well expect tourists to be uneducated but there are limits to how much that lack of education should be allowed to continue.

Haha... I remember when I was first trying on a PV kilt as I needed one quickly for an event I went into the "kilt" shop in St. James' Centre in Edinburgh.
The girl from Sudan (the only person in the shop) who was serving me and was trying to be helpful. As I was trying it on she said "you're supposed to wear it over a bit, arent you?"
I was just like "over where?"
She said "the skirt bits are supposed to be at your front, no?"
I couldnt help but laugh... she just knew she was wrong at that point. There's even 3 manicans in the shop window with the kilt on correctly
"it's my first day" she explained

Maybe those tourists bought their kilts from her!

[McClef]

I can't recall that shop you mention Paul!

But it does indicate the need for better staff training in many such establishments!