Gold Brothers, aka...

[Heather MacCain]

Hello everyone,

I’d like to thank you all again for your posts on this forum. I have to admit that the discussion is constructive and criticism has risen to the level of civilized argument. Thank you all for that. The information on the imperfections you see is the best way for us to improve the way things work. I can see from your comments that the competence of shop staff is an issue and it is also our deep concern. We are preparing and will be introducing a unified training program to our establishments so that all of our employees will have a sufficient level of expertise. Truth is, as you pointed out, that many of our employees are not Scottish thus their awareness of the Scottish heritage may not be sufficient. They are, however, honest and hard-working people who I can assure you will comply with the high standards of customer service we are continuously applying. All I can say at present is that bit by bit we are improving the way our company works. We are doing this everyday and we try hard to achieve your satisfaction. We, as everyone else in this world, like being praised, but in fact, we wait from the criticism from this forum and give it great attention as it is a voice of kilt loving community helping us to make the business better.

Heather

[MacMillan of Rathdown]

I really don't see why everybody is so upset about the labels in kilts. I can understand objecting to poor quality-- don't buy it-- but the label thing escapes me. Are Levi 501s made in Portugal from Indian cotton somehow not 501s because they weren't made in San Francisco, California, from US produced cotton? They still have the Red Tag on the back pocket. I think the same is true with kilts-- I think any garment should be tagged with the fibre-content of the material because that aids in proper cleaning. But other than that? Get real. Just because I buy an off the peg suit from a shop in London doesn't mean that I have any expectation of that suit being hand made somewhere in the UK, let alone down on Savile Row.

If you are buying a fully tailored kilt then you can expect it to be 100% wool, etc. because the cost of purchase demands that sort of quality. But if you are buying a kilt off the rack, ready to wear, then all you can expect is a reasonable fit and a reasonable degree of durability. Will you get a $400 kilt for $60? No, and only a fool would think otherwise. No matter what the label may say.

[Colonel MacNeal]

A friend of mine just returned to Texas from The Royal Mile, and reports that all the kilt shops he visited were run and manned by South Asians. No problem with that. However, he also indicated that only the managers of these shops had any knowledge of the merchandise.

[McClef]

Labelling is an issue that goes beyond kilts MOR and the citation of jeans only goes to prove it.

But this is a kilts forum and therefore discussion on the labels is pertinent regarding the labelling of kilts.

Those of us "in the know" can read through the foggy wording but Joe Tourist isn't getting the full information including, as you yourself have pointed out, fibre content and care instructions.

And Heather, I am pleased to hear about the training plans. Good staff education is a fundamental part of a business.

[MacMillan of Rathdown]

Labelling is an issue that goes beyond kilts MOR and the citation of jeans only goes to prove it.

But this is a kilts forum and therefore discussion on the labels is pertinent regarding the labelling of kilts.

Those of us "in the know" can read through the foggy wording but Joe Tourist isn't getting the full information including, as you yourself have pointed out, fibre content and care instructions.

Couldn't agree more. But does this mean that if a company put their trade label in the kilts they sold all of this would go away?

IE:

KrapeeKilts, Ltd.
The Royal Mile
Edinburgh
SCOTLAND

Or, as I am beginning to suspect, would the complaints come thick and fast because the labeling might lead some dull-witted tourist to believe that his "Krapee Kilt" is a 100% Scottish product?

I guess what I'm asking is this: What's the real reason for all this Gold Brothers bashing? Crappy products? Crappy products made in Pakistan? Crappy products made in Pakistan foisted on an unsuspecting public as having originated in Scotland? Or is it down to the fact that the Gold Brothers, who are shrewd businessmen, have seen a market, have moved in aggressively, and are resented by some Scots who don't like the fact that some non-ethnic Scots have bested them at their own game?

Perhaps, after nearly 100 posts, someone can give me the definitive answer.

[Foxgun Tom]

MacMillan of Rathdown say's:

"I guess what I'm asking is this: What's the real reason for all this Gold Brothers bashing? Crappy products? Crappy products made in Pakistan? Crappy products made in Pakistan foisted on an unsuspecting public as having originated in Scotland? Or is it down to the fact that the Gold Brothers, who are shrewd businessmen, have seen a market, have moved in aggressively, and are resented by some Scots who don't like the fact that some non-ethnic Scots have bested them at their own game?

Perhaps, after nearly 100 posts, someone can give me the definitive answer."

I don't think some Scots or even a majority! do resent Gold Brothers these lads are shrewd business men an have seen a niche in the market and exploited it? is'nt that what any business is supposed to do?? as for crappy products from pakistan or the far east, we have just as many other scottish iconic items imported from Europe and elsewhere and they don't get slated as much as this? If a Scot or a tourist like me wants to shop at Gold brothers thats our right and choice, I don't see anything being foisted on anyone!!!! If an individual has a limited budget and buy's a product that encourages him to save and buy more expensive alternatives maybe elswhere or even the same supplier, all the better, These guy's contribute to the Scottish economy and any promotion of kilt wearing is to be applauded, if an individual has an issue with labelling on any item again!! there's a choice, don't buy whatever the product is!! for me its that simple! at present my top end of the market estate tweeds, vest's, jacket's kilts, other jackets accessories etc: the value probably runs into more than a couple of thousand pounds sterling and I certanly would not be put off purchasing items from this company if the items are what I require!

Tom

Ps: This may seem a dumb question! but as a Scot I'd love to know what is a non-ethnic Scot???, its the first time I've heard the term!!

[MacMillan of Rathdown]

Tom,

I happen to be in about 100% agreement with pretty much everything you've said, which is why I can't figure out why all the nonsense about the Gold Brothers.

[McMurdo]

I do not as yet have a kilt from Heritage of Scotland, I do however have a Prince Charlie from Heritage of Scotland. When I first got into kilting a few years ago I wanted a Prince Charlie for Burns Suppers etc. I bought the Imported Budget Black Prince Charlie Jacket. I knew it was Imported as it said so on the site and it was the most economical Prince Charlie I could find. I have since heard of problems with orders, however lately I've heard only positive things.

As for me I received the Prince Charlie in a timely fashion and was and am quite pleased with it. It is not the finest Prince Charlie on the planet, but I knew that when I bought it, Heritage of Scotland did not force me to buy it, I simply purchased the Prince Charlie I could afford. My one complaint would have to be that the shipping costs were not fully explained, however to be fair I never thought to ask about either.

Here is my original review of the Prince Charlie
http://www.xmarksthescot.com/forum/m...610/index.html

Here are a couple of photos, I normally do not wear it during the day time by the way

[KFCarter]

don't think it's that complicated to understand....

Generally, it's human nature not to care too much for deception, even of a mild degree.

There are lots of forms and degrees of deception, and most people, when they find they've been "had" tend not to like it.

Advertising, labeling of products... this is an area where deception can occur. I know you may be shocked, but it's true. When it does occur, it tends to undercut the advertising and labeling of sellers who do not practice any degree of deception and makes their product seem less competitive.

Certainly, any company is free to identify a market niche and go after it. And most companies, as night follows day, will try to expand their niche... and often, the least expensive way to do that is to "spin" their advertising. They're free to do it.

And consumers are free to feel "had" when they discover that they were "spun" into buying a product that they thought was one thing and turned out to be another.

For the case in point, I think a lot of the concern centers around a label that does say "designed in Scotland" but fails to mention "made in 'true country of origin' ". The first statement is a true and legal one. And it's not so much the presence of the first statement as the absence of the last that concerns people. "Designed in Scotland" morphs easily into "my kilt was made in Scotland" in the careless eye of the inexperienced, over-exuberant or unwary. Of course that wouldn't happen in "Made in 'real country of origin' " was included... and the feeling of many is, that is the very reason "Made in 'real country'" is left off the label... that the omission is a tacit acknowledgment that if if the true country of manufacture were identified that there would be some customers that would choose another maker (not all, many do know, don't care and are happy with the lighter price and more power to them!). Margins are always tight, I don't care what business you're in, so that "some" can make the difference between success and failure: certainly a powerful inducement to "spin."

So what of it? Nothing I suppose, if you don't care about those unwary folks who get "spun." I, however, think one should care, because over time "spin" becomes the norm and the products of less quality that benefit from it become the only thing left in the marketplace, except for just a small residue of high quality and uber-high priced artisanal products that are out of the reach of all but the most lavish budgets.

Of course, in the end, any level of spin can be justified under the law of Caveat Emptor, but hand-made 8 yd kilts are already pretty dear, and I can't help but wonder what their price would be if many of their makers went out of business.

I certainly appreciate Heather's forthrightness in the face of some rather heated exchanges. I don't think there's anything evil going on with her employer. But I do think "spin", even a little bit of it, is corrosive. And for me, I'd just like to see all labels state the whole truth so that the marketplace could truly sort the wheat from the chaff.

[McClef]

I think that KF Carter has put it very well.

It's a blanket label put even on non-tartan kilts (camouflage, black etc.) though which then renders even the "true and legal" statement meaningless.

And not all tartans "designed in Scotland" are "authentic Highland" - some could well have been designed in the Lowlands, or even elsewhere.

This is not unique to Gold Bros so it would indeed be unfair to make them the sole villains of the piece. I do not see this as bashing but I hope as constructive criticism and Heather has indicated her willingness to listen to that especially when it is done in a polite manner and without heat and acrimony.