When is a dirk appropriate?

[davedove]

I would agree with the "only on specific occasions" choice. I'm sure a lot of people want to strap on a dirk (or even a sword) because they have this romantic image in their heads from the time gentlemen regularly wore their arms about.

Well, this is the 21st century and that just isn't done anymore, except for specific occasions.

I know those blades can cost a lot and you want to show them off, but leave them home unless you have a specific occasion for it, like those mentioned before.

[Am Bàrd]

Both my parents are pipers and do wear dirks on occasion, though not often. Appropriateness is gauged by the event though I think - wearing a dirk when piping a golf tournament would be a little much, but a Burns night or wedding would be ok.

With regards to weapons in a House of Worship - it's actually quite historical for Scots to wear weapons in church. There is a semi-famous quote describing the Scots as always going about armed, even in church - though I'm afraid I can't recall the source at the moment.

[macwilkin]

With regards to weapons in a House of Worship - it's actually quite historical for Scots to wear weapons in church. There is a semi-famous quote describing the Scots as always going about armed, even in church - though I'm afraid I can't recall the source at the moment.

Well, yes and no...while there are at least two stories I can think of armed ministers -- both Episcopalian vicars dealing with hostile Presbyterian congregations -- and of course, the armed piquets of the Covenanters on guard against approaching dragoons -- generally, church protocol and custom frowns on the idea of wearing weapons while in kirk.

Remember that in a church there is the custom of the right of sanctuary -- think the martyrdom of St. Thomas a' Becket or Bruce's murder of the Red Comyn.

T.

[MacMillan of Rathdown]

I am no expert on Burns night traditions, I can't abide haggis and I am afraid that R Burns' words do little for me. However, on the rare occasion that I have gone to a Burns night, the dirk was in place by where the haggis was to be done to death.It was not worn by anyone.

A word of warning to those who have an expensive dirk or sword, do not cut haggis or wedding cakes with them. Unless the blades are cleaned immediately and properly after the event your blade will suffer. I am sure MoR has seen many a ruined blade at Wilkinsons that were used as cake cutters. I certainly have.

Quite true! They used to regularly come into the factory rusted to the scabbard and some (most) were literally beyond saving.

My advice to all Burns Supper Afficianados and celebrants:

1) Buy an inexpensive dirk with a stainless steel blade for the haggis ceremony. Never use an antique or family heirloom. But if you do--
2) (The following applies to all blades, including stainless steel blades) Wash the blade with liquid soap and dry it well. DO NOT PUT IT BACK IN THE SHEATH OR SCABBARD!
3) After the blade has had a chance to become completely dry, apply a light coat of cooking oil to the blade and wrap it in cling film. DO NOT PUT IT BACK IN THE SHEATH OR SCABBARD. Instead, take it to the event wrapped in a large cloth napkin.
4) Immediately after poking the haggis (or cutting the cake) use the cloth napkin to wipe off the blade. DO NOT PUT IT BACK IN THE SHEATH OR SCABBARD!
5) As soon as you get home carefully wash the blade using liquid soap and dry it well. Leave it standing overnight, POINT DOWN, so that it will be completely dry in the morning.
6) Apply a light coating of gun oil, or 3-In-1 oil, to the blade (do not use WD40 as this will not protect the blade from rust).
7) Now you can put the dirk, sgian dubh, or sword back in its scabbard.
8) As a precaution check the blade every month to be sure that it is not rusting or discolouring. After examining the blade, oil it, and put it back in the scabbard.

[JRB]

I only wear my dirk when dressing in historical highland garb (which isn't very often at all). IMO, a dirk only looks appropriate when worn by reenactors, pipers, haggis killers, and those in specific military uniform. My dirk is most often just a display piece. I have tested it's thrusting capabilities a time or two on soft targets, but that was just for fun.

[george7]

My pipe band in Melbourne wears them whenever we're wearing our military stuff (spats, horsehair sporran, etc).

[MacMillan of Rathdown]

Just a thought

It would seem that the Montrose doublet (white tie formal) is really the only type of coatee/doublet that would really work with carrying a dirk. Regulation doublets, Prince Charlie coatees, and Sherrifmuir doublets all lack a belt to hang the dirk from.

A fairly astute observation. However, if one is wearing a coatee or open doublet then the dirk belt is buckled over the waistcoat. In the "Vintage Photos Thread" there is an excellent photo of the Earl and Countess of Mansfield at the Caledonian Ball in London which clearly shows this arrangement. The other options are to wear a narrow belt under the waistcoat (as is done by Privy Councilors and others when carrying a sword) or to hang the dirk from the top R/H kilt strap (the dirk is always worn on the right). This last method is the least desirable as it places the dirk too much to the side of the wearer. It should properly be worn in front of the hip bone, not behind it.

But, as you have pointed out, the best place for the dirk at a Burns Supper is on the table, ready for use!

[Bruno]

Well, yes and no...while there are at least two stories I can think of armed ministers -- both Episcopalian vicars dealing with hostile Presbyterian congregations -- and of course, the armed piquets of the Covenanters on guard against approaching dragoons -- generally, church protocol and custom frowns on the idea of wearing weapons while in kirk.

Remember that in a church there is the custom of the right of sanctuary -- think the martyrdom of St. Thomas a' Becket or Bruce's murder of the Red Comyn.

T.

Actually it was Thomas Becket not Thomas a Becket this is a common mistake that has grown to such an extent that many actually believe that to be the truth rather than his real name.

[macwilkin]

Actually it was Thomas Becket not Thomas a Becket this is a common mistake that has grown to such an extent that many actually believe that to be the truth rather than his real name.

You'll need to let the Oxford Dictionary of English, the New Oxford Dictionary for Writers and Editors, and Chambers Biographical Dictionary all know then -- all three prefer the term, which reportedly was an imitation of Thomas a' Kempis.

And I thought I was pedantic!

T.

[McMurdo]

Here are a few examples from the Vintage photo thread of how to wear a dirk with a coatee



20th May 1957: The Earl and Countess of Mansfield dressed in traditional Scottish garb (including kilt and sporran) at the Royal Caledonian Ball. (Photo by Evening Standard/Getty Images) The Earl of Mansfield is wearing Mess Dress of an officer of the Atholl Highlanders. Many Atholl Highlanders still attend the the RCB, wearing the same uniform.


Lord David Douglas-Hamilton (1912 - 1944, left) arrives at Glasgow Cathedral for his wedding to fitness instructor Prunella Stack, 16th October 1938. On the right is his brother and best man, Lord George Douglas-Hamilton, 10th Earl of Selkirk (1906 - 1994). (Photo by Fox Photos/Hulton Archive/Getty Images)

I also have a photo from this years Burns Dinner where I wore my own dirk with a Montrose Doublet, normally I would forgo such extravagance however I was doing the Address to the Haggis and so the dirk was appropriate. It was not on the sporran strap but on the dress belt.