Theory and practice.

[pdcorlis]

Another question for Jock and our Scots brothers...

I don't think I repeating a question that's been previously asked - but then this thread has grown by leaps and bounds so here goes.

Obviously, the 8 yard knife pleat tartan "tank" is the norm but could someone comment on tweed kilts? Are they seen? What to the lads in the pub say after we've strolled out the door in our best tweed knife pleat kilts?

Cheers!

[Jock Scot]

Blackbeard. I have in the distant past been involved with the occasional investiture as a very minor helper. The normal(lounge suits are allowed these days I am told) civilian wear for a recipient of an honour would be a morning suit(top hat and tails) or if a Scot was there wearing the kilt, a black, barathea, silver buttoned argyll (the equivalent of morning dress) was worn. I did see a black barathea argyll with black buttons that looked very smart and I have to confess to poaching that idea. My black barathea argyll has interchangeable black/silver buttons.As to a tie with the kilt a normal four in hand tie, often regimental, but, university, old school type or some sober hue. NOT TARTAN! Although I did see a well known comedian wearing a tartan tie at the Palace.

[Jock Scot]

Another question for Jock and our Scots brothers...

I don't think I repeating a question that's been previously asked - but then this thread has grown by leaps and bounds so here goes.

Obviously, the 8 yard knife pleat tartan "tank" is the norm but could someone comment on tweed kilts? Are they seen? What to the lads in the pub say after we've strolled out the door in our best tweed knife pleat kilts?

Cheers!

Apart from pictures here mainly, I have only ever seen one tweed kilt in my life.To my eyes it looked very odd. It was an estate tweed, a nice one, that was made into a kilt for one of the staff------he is(was now I am afraid) the only 24/7 kilt wearer that I have actually known, not counting xmarkers. The locals thought he was a wee bit strange.

[blackbeard]

Thanks Jock.
Formal day wear seems to be the most difficult to get correct.

[MrLion]

This is one of the best threads I've ever encountered here.
All of you gentleman are to be commended on the polite interchange of ideas.
Jock, I always very much appreciate your input on current Highland practice, very helpful! Thank you all. I am rethinking what tartan I want for my first "tank" as I save up.

[pdcorlis]

Snip
...The locals thought he was a wee bit strange.
Snip

Ah - not that much different from my experience here in Coeur d Alene Idaho then...

Thanks so much Jock!

[Peter C.]

Now I can not sit by and have you count our football fans as a second rate group, they far exceed the english version. They are held in fear by english clubs, no one wants our fans turning up at their quiet little stadiums. Extra police are on duty just Google Manchester last year.

Psh english fans are just learning, the Scots are the masters of this.

Ps a lot of Irish fans are actually rangers fans it goes by religion Catholic or Prody.

Bruno, I'm not going to say any more on this subject other than to say I was surprised that Phil didn't seem to realize that you and I were agreeing on the subject.

Peter

[Bruno]

Bruno, I'm not going to say any more on this subject other than to say I was surprised that Phil didn't seem to realize that you and I were agreeing on the subject.

Peter

Funny as for sectarian that's a joke. My mother was Protestant and father Catholic, while I was raised Protestant and married, you guessed a Catholic?? I would not know who I am supposed to not get on with, on that subject as my family is so muddled up.

I am disappointed that Phil jumped to wrong assumptions. That's what political correctness has done to people nowadays every one is looking to find a problem with no knowledge of the people involved. He could of just PM me and asked if he thought I was being, I don't know sectarian rather than have it in his mind. It could easily been cleared up. I'm disappointed that's how he interprets innocuous comments to be honest.

I honestly feel this is a major problem on some forums in that people have a hard time with messages and assume the worst. Now I personally drink in the local Rangers pub at times in my Irish National and we all get on well. I would urge people to check what is actually being said, not what they think some one will say.

To be honest I expected more of this forum and its members.

[Ancienne Alliance]

Funny as for sectarian that's a joke. My mother was Protestant and father Catholic, while I was raised Protestant and married, you guessed a Catholic?? I would not know who I am supposed to not get on with, on that subject as my family is so muddled up.

I am disappointed that Phil jumped to wrong assumptions. That's what political correctness has done to people nowadays every one is looking to find a problem with no knowledge of the people involved. He could of just PM me and asked if he thought I was being, I don't know sectarian rather than have it in his mind. It could easily been cleared up. I'm disappointed that's how he interprets innocuous comments to be honest.

I honestly feel this is a major problem on some forums in that people have a hard time with messages and assume the worst. Now I personally drink in the local Rangers pub at times in my Irish National and we all get on well. I would urge people to check what is actually being said, not what they think some one will say.

To be honest I expected more of this forum and its members.

This is why we set NO Politics as a rule here on XMTS. Perhaps we should add No sports !


Best,

Robert

[Sir William]

I'm just now reading this having been abroad for a week and with only limited computer access. I find it pretty informative and educational as it illuminates the different perspectives between one side of the pond and the other.

Before I left for Scotland to attend both my clan gathering in the Borders and the 2009 Gathering of the Clans in Edinburgh I quizzed Jock Scot on what would be considered appropriate for Scotland. From my own experience and observations I was pretty sure that what was acceptable here in the States might not be so readily acceptable in Scotland. To paraphrase MoR, I didn't want to offend unintentionally if I could avoid it - after all I was a guest.

On the whole, I opted to follow the Scottish custom and never felt out of place. I felt a bit strange wearing a kilt in the Borders since it is not historically Lowland attire. I did note that most of the local men wore trews, if they wore tartan at all, while most of us "foreign" men wore kilts. All were acceptable, and if any comments were made it was about which mills produced the best looking varient.

While attending the Gathering in Edinburgh I took the opportunity to see what else was being worn. Mirroring Jock's earlier comments, it appeared that most Scots (and not a few Yanks, Canadians and Australians) couldn't tell one tartan from another, save for their own.

From my perspective (and generally in agreement with what Jock had told me) most Scots were more likely to be seen wearing a tweed jacket (and perhaps a waistcoat) while the "foreigners" tended to dress more for comfort, but there were many exceptions. I did notice that almost all the Scots wore the "traditional" 8-yard pleated kilt and it was usually pleated to the sett, though again there was the occasional exception or two. The length also tended to be a bit longer than those worn by the "foreigners." Any if any objected to the way we "foreigners" were wearing our kilts I didn't hear it. Oh yes, and I saw a large number wearing white hose, so obviously they weren't regulars on this forum. On the whole, I think everyone present just enjoyed seeing so much tartan and so many kilts being worn in one place.

In another thread I asked about appropriate attire for a ceilidh and quickly discovered that what was worn in the US or Canada didn't necessarily match up to what is worn in Scotland, nor for that matter what I observed at my small clan ceilidh.

Later, while waiting for my flight home, I saw a group of youngish men wearing kilts as they boarded a flight to Ireland. From my perspective, they wore their kilts too low (and thus covering the knee) and almost all of them wore a coloured fur dress sporran, along with scrunched down socks, boots, and t-shirts. My first thought was that they needed to monitor this forum so they could learn how to wear a kilt, but my second was that they were Scots and wearing their national attire...according to their practice.

My point being is that Jock has provided us with some worthy and well-thought out observations on kilt wearing in Scotland. My own and very limited observations seemed to echo what he has said. That said, next time I go over I'm planning on taking my 6 yard double-box Elliot that Lady Chrystel made for me - mainly because it doesn't fill up the suitcase as much as my traditional 8 yard tank. I doubt anyone will tell me its not a proper kilt.