Theory and practice.

[sathor]

This is why we set NO Politics as a rule here on XMTS. Perhaps we should add No sports !

that would make the highland games forum really tricky.

[MacMillan of Rathdown]

Thanks Jock.
Formal day wear seems to be the most difficult to get correct.

Actually, formal day wear is pretty easy: WHITE shirt; conservative necktie; BLACK Argyll jacket with silver buttons; matching BLACK five/six button waistcoat; dress sporran; kilt; dark kilt hose; sgian dubh; highly polished black shoes.

Now what's interesting about the black Argyll jacket as the backbone of formal day wear is that by replacing the five/six button waistcoat with a three button waistcoat, and exchanging the necktie for a black bow tie, you have a perfectly acceptable formal evening wear outfit.

No other jacket is as versatile as the black Argyll jacket.

[blackbeard]

No other jacket is as versatile as the black Argyll jacket.

Thanks,
The black Argyll just moved up to my # 1 jacket purchase.

[BoldHighlander]

Later, while waiting for my flight home, I saw a group of youngish men wearing kilts as they boarded a flight to Ireland. From my perspective, they wore their kilts too low (and thus covering the knee) and almost all of them wore a coloured fur dress sporran, along with scrunched down socks, boots, and t-shirts. My first thought was that they needed to monitor this forum so they could learn how to wear a kilt, but my second was that they were Scots and wearing their national attire...according to their practice.

That's whats commonly known as "Thug Style":

[Alan H]

My understanding has always been like this...Jock most usually comments by saying:

"I live in the Highlands of Scotland, and this is what I/we see/hear/do here."

There's no real "right" or "wrong" about it. The man is reporting what he and his acquaintances, locally do/wear/think. The extra weight that Jocks word might carry is because he lives in the Scottish Highlands, and the kilt evolved in the Highlands. However, in terms of ultimate rightness or wrongness, Jock reporting what he sees or has experienced is no more right or wrong than you or I or anybody else reporting what they see or experience.

Jock says: "I only knew one fellow who ever wore a tweed kilt and the local folks thought he was a bit odd."

This is merely Jock reporting on the local reception to one lad who wore a tweed kilt. It's not a condemnation of all tweed kilts, worldwide.


Jock says: "Nobody here much knows or cares about District tartans, they are pretty much irrelevant here."

This is a statement which means no more than what it says. Jock and his friends and associates and neighbors don't really know or care much about district tartans. It's emphatically not a statement about the entirely of Scottish History, or the ugliness/beauty/appropriateness or whatever of district tartans.

These things are just Jock reporting on his experience. I've never seen Jock say anything like "you people who don't wear the kilt the way I and my neighbors wear the kilt are BAD PEOPLE".

Also, I notice that Jock said that the local thought the fellow with the tweed kilt was a little bit odd. Gee, I didn't notice him saying that the local lads let the air out of his tires and threw rocks through the window of his house. So, what? If you wear a tweed kilt in Dallas, or Sacramento, or Boise, or Dayton people might think you are a little bit odd, too. Why on earth are you so worried about what other people think?

Also, I certainly understand Jocks frustration when people say "How is this thing done in Scotland?" with an apparent eye to adapting their own practice, only to say "well, to hell with it, I'll do what I want" when they don't hear what they want to hear. If you ask the mans opinion, or ask about the customs in his part of the world, then be prepared to listen to what he has to say, and thank him for responding to your question.

[blackbeard]

Bold added by me.

Also, I certainly understand Jocks frustration when people say "How is this thing done in Scotland?" with an apparent eye to adapting their own practice, only to say "well, to hell with it, I'll do what I want" when they don't hear what they want to hear. If you ask the mans opinion, or ask about the customs in his part of the world, then be prepared to listen to what he has to say, and thank him for responding to your question.

Yeah, Alan!
(I seem to be in a very agreeable mood today.)

[dfmacliam]

I agree 100% with you on this one Alan... he has always told of his perspective, from his community and how they wear their kilts.. and why... and of the short time I been on this site... I have only seen one post from him... where he voiced his dislike over anothers kilt... it made me laugh.. it was short and sweet... Jock has always said he learns things from the site... He has never professed to be an authority over anything.. only of what he knows from his neck of the Highlands...

[Rex_Tremende]

Also, I certainly understand Jocks frustration when people say "How is this thing done in Scotland?" with an apparent eye to adapting their own practice, only to say "well, to hell with it, I'll do what I want" when they don't hear what they want to hear. If you ask the mans opinion, or ask about the customs in his part of the world, then be prepared to listen to what he has to say, and thank him for responding to your question.

On the whole, Alan, I think you've got it about right - what Jock's trying to say, that is.

Where I think we run into trouble is about here:

... I refuse to see my national dress and culture cheapened and to my eyes brought into ridicule by those that don't want to listen and apparently don't care. Well I damn well do!

There are two problems here:

The first is in ascribing motivation upon those who would wear the kilt in any other fashion that what Jock is familiar with as ridicule and wanton cheapening. He's taking it that way, but I rather doubt anyone intends it that way, even if the non-traditional styling is wantonly deliberate. This is a clash of values, and there are rarely any winners in this kind of conflict.

The second is in conflating petitioners with respondents. In my observation, it's rare that someone who genuinely asks for feedback is the one saying they don't care. Often, I've observed, as soon as someone says, "That's not the way it's done," someone else will say, "Well, I'll wear what I want!" I can't recall a single instance where the OP has taken offense because he requested feedback and got back what he'd rather not hear. Rather it's his presumed defenders who are offended.

Jock stands for something. Tradition. National pride. Decorum. We can (and should) respect and honor this. Why is it so difficult to celebrate progress and innovation at the same time?

Regards,
Rex.

[MacMillan of Rathdown]

I agree that there is no reason why we can't celebrate progress and innovation while holding on to traditional values. As I see it the problem arises when, in the eyes of the traditionalist, progress becomes parody and innovation turns to insult. I'm all for new and innovative design-- I'm the guy who did the original sketches for the Irish kilt jackets for Gaelic Themes-- provided that these new innovations aren't so outlandish that they are actually offensive to the traditionalist who defines kilt wearing in cultural, rather than catwalk, terms. It has been my observation that wearing the kilt as a counter-cultural statement causes the most grief and gives the greatest offense. It is the hijacking of the kilt by "tribalists" and week-end anarchists, and the attitude they bring to kilt wearing, that some find extremely insulting.

[wildrover]

As I see it the problem arises when, in the eyes of the traditionalist, progress becomes parody and innovation turns to insult. I'm all for new and innovative design-- I'm the guy who did the original sketches for the Irish kilt jackets for Gaelic Themes-- provided that these new innovations aren't so outlandish that they are actually offensive to the traditionalist who defines kilt wearing in cultural, rather than catwalk, terms. It has been my observation that wearing the kilt as a counter-cultural statement causes the most grief and gives the greatest offense. It is the hijacking of the kilt by "tribalists" and week-end anarchists, and the attitude they bring to kilt wearing, that some find extremely insulting.

Call me a traditionalist, but I think you've really hit on something here, something that resonates with me. I want a kilt...because I want to wear it, beyond games and solo piping when I'm required to wear one...but there was a long Q&A with my girlfriend to the effect of "if I wear my kilt to dinner, to the bar, hiking, 4wheeling, etc. will you think I'm X, Y or Z?"

I want to wear a kilt because #1 it's damn comfortable and #2 it's damn sharp looking and I know how my girl feels about it. I know it'll get looks...but I don't need to say I'm punk, alternative, live an "alternative lifestyle" or however it's referred to these days, I don't wear women's clothing, and on and on. I don't even feel the need to wear a cheeky kilt-related t-shirt to legitimize my kilt...I got a plenty sharp tongue . If I fit in any of those categories, or if anyone else does, that's your business...I (and you) hopefully will never wear a kilt as a part of whatever counter-culture ideals to which we might ascribe--I'd wear my kilt to any number of concerts, but liking a particular sort of music isn't why I want a kilt, if that makes sense. FWIW, I have yet to see anything like that here on X-Marks, for all there are people here from every walk of life, as far as I can tell.

I do think we in America have our own distinct "kilt culture", different from Scotland...and hopefully it is reflective of kilts and kilt-like garments as articles of clothing rather than social or (heaven forbid) political statements...but as they are derived from something particularly (if not uniquely) Scottish, it's nice to know the guidelines for proper wear, so I don't dress in the kilted analogue to a ponytail on the side of one's head.

So, focusing entirely on wearing the kilt as a garment and ignoring the fringe kilted pretenders ...if I wanted to wear my kilt as part of an outfit...maybe you guys can point me in the right direction for what else I might wear in the following situations? These are gray areas here in the US...jeans, cowboy boots and a blazer may be as appropriate, and worn as effectively, as a suit and tie.

-Take my girl to the ballet/symphony/opera. Usually people dress up...I always have, even in college...it's one of few good excuses to look sharp without being a philanthropist (an area where I fail miserably ). Usually see slacks, blazer and tie, sometimes black tie, sometimes a penguin suit (but not often). What then, with a kilt?

-Out to dinner, slacks and button-up, tie optional?

-"Business casual" events--slacks and button-up optional, jeans ok, but no surf shorts--wine tastings, receptions, non-formal dinner events, galleries, museums, etc...?

I'm good for bars, hikes, the garage, fair and foul weather, distillery tours, sporting events, skirt-chasing...got plenty of well-loved t-shirts. The rest......uh, help?

Thanks guys and girls,
Sean